Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

discourse.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 258 posts

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#201

Post by hu3 »

dashwav wrote: post #180
kick wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No longer true. To quote the founder: There are quite a lot of Synapses out there right now, and Synapse's featureset is pretty mature. Given we have pretty high profile people running Synapse (e.g. all of the French government) we have no choice but to invest the time to polish it and make it more efficient and stable. In an ideal world we'd have paused on Synapse ages ago and focused purely on a next-gen server, bu…

From two Matrix members, one who is the matrix.org team lead today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21836684

Two new full-time employees were hired to work on Dendrite (written in Go) and p2p matrix?

Interesting. I had the impression that the Rust version would have priority.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#202

Post by ajxs »

bloopernova wrote: post #177

Has anyone had experience with both Matrix and Mattermost? What are the main differences between the two? Apropos of nothing, currently I am running: * Signal * Wife * Family * Google Hangouts (web) * Friends and ex-coworkers * Slack * Vendor A * Vendor B * Team C * Team D * Keybase * Some friends * SMS * My Stepdaughter * Skype * Coworkers too stubborn to open Mattermost or change what they do * Mattermost * Coworke…

You've just described my nightmare scenario. I'm currently experiencing "Messaging app fatigue" and I'm not using even a quarter of the apps that you are.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#203

Post by kibwen »

kingbirdy wrote: post #185
kibwen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Also, while we're here, let me advertise that this is not just "my" podcast, it's a community-based podcast that accepts audio files from anyone who wants to make any Rust-related podcast content but who doesn't want to go through the trouble of setting up a website, file hosting solution, podcast index integration, and so on. Contributions accepted. :) https://github.com/rustacean-station/rustacean-station.o…

What a cool concept. Have you had many episodes contributed so far?

Of our seven episodes only one hasn't been a product of me or Jon: an interview with Armin Ronacher about using Rust in production (https://rustacean-station.org/episode/004-rust-in-production...). Though we're about to publish our second externally-produced episode tonight, an interview with the creator of static site generator named Zola (née Gutenberg).

Plenty of people say tell us they're going to contribute, but you know how life gets in the way. :) We're not bothered by having a low-volume or irregular release schedule, this is just a fun side project for us.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#204

Post by Arathorn »

lousken wrote: post #186
Arathorn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1a/1b and 2 is where all our work is going currently. We're trying to get E2E on by default in Jan, and likewise exit beta for RiotX/Android around the same time. We're going as fast as we can. 3: Matrix.org homeserver performance should be absolutely fine now. Delays when doing things like joining big rooms are unrelated to the hardware, but perf optimisations we need to do to synapse in general. They're on the rada…

ad 1a - E2E by default - meaning you'll flip the switch once there's a feature parity with non encypted rooms in riot? ad 3 - from my testing it's fine for about 98% of the time, but sometimes it takes ~3-8seconds to send a message (sitting on 300 or 500Mbps wired connection), in e2e direct message room ad 4 - @ copy entire message - interesting, i needed it just recenly so i went into the submenu and there's show so…

1a: Yes. the second we have parity, we'll start turning it on by default for private rooms. We'll probably start with DMs, and we'll probably do a fairly soft roll-out to sneak in some final testing. Current status is that we have E2E Search working (github.com/matrix-org/seshat); we have E2E cross-signing almost done (https://dashboard.lant.uk/#/plan?epic=vector-im/user-stories... we have eyes on the remaining causes of undecryptable messages and are working through them. We're aiming for Jan.

3: Interesting. It could be a very temporary CPU saturation on the Matrix.org CPU master. We're working on sharding the master per-room to mitigate this, but it's going to be a few months to land.

4: Looks like there is a bug for this already - please upvote https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/10649.

Testing & reporting bugs is absolutely invaluable - thank you.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#205

Post by Arathorn »

boring_twenties wrote: post #184
uhoreg wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g., I have one device 'foo' which you already trust. I add a new device 'bar'. Why on earth would you want to verify its key manually when I could just send you the new key from 'foo' which you already trust? This particular issue is being worked on right now in Riot, and should be fixed early in the new year.

That is awesome, but any thoughts on why I cannot easily view the keys of my other devices in the UI? If I could then this would be a minor inconvenience at best, I'd just copy/paste the key from the already-trusted device.

I guess we just prioritised working on cross-signing etc rather than adding in UI for this. Sorry; it's an oversight.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#206

Post by wvyar »

kethinov wrote: post #196
boring_twenties wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending several months convincing a few friends to use Riot, the ongoing fiasco with E2E has caused all of them to leave within a couple of days. Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back. It's a real shame. These are technical people who don't particularly mind verifying a key by hand. In fact I personally even prefer it. The problem is not only that certain things are not done automatically, but that the…

> Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back. I recognize this is a common attitude, but it makes no sense to me. Some software you tried today isn't designed in a way you prefer, so you go back to using something else. Okay. Makes sense. But to declare the whole project forever hopeless as if it can never be improved upon because the snapshot of your first experience with it was negative is truly irrational.

I think it's less that people assume that it can never be improved and more that they find something else that is "good enough" and they won't leave that ecosystem until it stops being good enough. Generally speaking, I've found others (and myself, at times) don't re-evaluate their options until there's a need for them to upgrade or its brought to their attention by someone else.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#207

Post by __d »

bloopernova wrote: post #177

Has anyone had experience with both Matrix and Mattermost? What are the main differences between the two? Apropos of nothing, currently I am running: * Signal * Wife * Family * Google Hangouts (web) * Friends and ex-coworkers * Slack * Vendor A * Vendor B * Team C * Team D * Keybase * Some friends * SMS * My Stepdaughter * Skype * Coworkers too stubborn to open Mattermost or change what they do * Mattermost * Coworke…

My list isn't quite that long, but I'm using Franz to put most of them into a single window (albeit, with many tabs).

Sadly, it doesn't work with iMessage, nor Signal.

I just wish it was a native app, although I appreciate that'd make the effort involved 100x more.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#209

Post by boring_twenties »

Arathorn wrote: post #205
boring_twenties wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is awesome, but any thoughts on why I cannot easily view the keys of my other devices in the UI? If I could then this would be a minor inconvenience at best, I'd just copy/paste the key from the already-trusted device.

I guess we just prioritised working on cross-signing etc rather than adding in UI for this. Sorry; it's an oversight.

Thank you for your quick and patient answers to my perhaps too demanding questions.

Cross-signing is obviously better, no question about that. However this simple UI change would be at least 95% as good, and certainly good enough to have prevented my friends from giving up on Riot.

I hope that is at least somewhat constructive. Thank you for your work.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#210

Post by boring_twenties »

kethinov wrote: post #196
boring_twenties wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending several months convincing a few friends to use Riot, the ongoing fiasco with E2E has caused all of them to leave within a couple of days. Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back. It's a real shame. These are technical people who don't particularly mind verifying a key by hand. In fact I personally even prefer it. The problem is not only that certain things are not done automatically, but that the…

> Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back. I recognize this is a common attitude, but it makes no sense to me. Some software you tried today isn't designed in a way you prefer, so you go back to using something else. Okay. Makes sense. But to declare the whole project forever hopeless as if it can never be improved upon because the snapshot of your first experience with it was negative is truly irrational.

Keep in mind the only reason they tried the software is that I regularly pressured to do so for months, before they finally caved.

After all that they quickly come to realize that something simple like adding a new device is a massive pain in the ass.

It's not that they declare the whole project as forever hopeless, it's that they invested time and effort into trying it already and it turned out (for them) to be a waste.

It's just a bad taste left in the mouth. In order for them to try it again, they not only have to overcome their natural laziness/time constraints, but also the rather unpleasant memory of the last time.

Post reply on HN