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Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

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Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#191

Post by MayeulC »

Arathorn wrote: post #156
nullc wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And them Matrix will happily spam IRC with links to comments instead of the comments themselves. Matrix is toxic to IRC. Any widely used IRC channel that has matrix joined to it would do well to ban matrix if they want the channel to pratically continue to exist as a IRC channel.

The default heuristic is that if someone sends a message on Matrix which is longer than 3 lines, it gets sent as a pastebin to IRC. This feels significantly better than spamming an N-line paste into IRC, which could be seen as even more toxic. Open to suggestions on how to improve it, though...

> Open to suggestions on how to improve it, though...

I for one would really like code blocks formatting & syntax highlight in the linked text, maybe even show all formatting :)

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#192

Post by alkonaut »

jokoon wrote: post #145

I'm curious, what's wrong with IRC? Is it too old? Too difficult to monitor and moderate? Too easy to spam? I don't understand. I've never really understood why mozilla chose their own servers and not freenode. I've never really grasped the whole history of enet vs freenode either.

How is the feature parity with newer alternatives? Can I share my screen with someone easily? Can I post a screenshot? Can I be sure every client shows the screenshot properly? Will it handle an animated screenshot?

I wouldn’t want to use one tool for typing text and another for calling a third for sharing files and a fourth for sharing a screen and so on.

For example: Sharing an image as a link isn’t really an acceptable UX these days I think.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#193

Post by Vinnl »

mehhh wrote: post #37
jeltz wrote: post #7

Nice, given how the discussions were going some months ago I was worried that they would pick some closed source solution like Discord or Slack. I have not used Matrix so I do not know how good it is, but I do not like the lock-in of Discord and Slack.

Matrix can bridge in IRC, Slack, Gitter and a few other protocols very nicely, it reminds me of Pidgin but with much better UX.

I haven't managed to properly use Matrix myself, but I am part of a number of Gitter rooms that includes people using the Matrix bridge. I certainly wouldn't call that bridge "nice": all their messages are posted by a single user called matrixbot, that simply prefixes it message by their Matrix username in backticks. I'm not sure if the people in the room who aren't aware of Matrix understand that that's what's going on.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#195

Post by Mathnerd314 »

Mathnerd314 wrote: post #40
est31 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last ruma commit was in August, which was after a long period where nothing happened at all. Is the project dead?

The latest status seems to be https://github.com/ruma/ruma/issues/189#issuecomment-5539555... from a month ago. It looks like he is working on the client while he waits for Rust web server frameworks to adopt the recently-released async-await language features.

edit: https://www.ruma.io/status/ is a better overview

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#196

Post by kethinov »

boring_twenties wrote: post #172
Arathorn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1a/1b and 2 is where all our work is going currently. We're trying to get E2E on by default in Jan, and likewise exit beta for RiotX/Android around the same time. We're going as fast as we can. 3: Matrix.org homeserver performance should be absolutely fine now. Delays when doing things like joining big rooms are unrelated to the hardware, but perf optimisations we need to do to synapse in general. They're on the rada…

After spending several months convincing a few friends to use Riot, the ongoing fiasco with E2E has caused all of them to leave within a couple of days. Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back. It's a real shame. These are technical people who don't particularly mind verifying a key by hand. In fact I personally even prefer it. The problem is not only that certain things are not done automatically, but that the…

> Obviously they're unlikely to ever come back.

I recognize this is a common attitude, but it makes no sense to me.

Some software you tried today isn't designed in a way you prefer, so you go back to using something else. Okay. Makes sense.

But to declare the whole project forever hopeless as if it can never be improved upon because the snapshot of your first experience with it was negative is truly irrational.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#197

Post by feanaro »

Arathorn wrote: post #158
feanaro wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some bug fixes in the last year (IIRC) though nothing very substantial, I think. Then again, it's always worked reasonably well for me and I'm using it regularly. I heard it was going to get worked on soon, though.

There was a major upgrade to the conference calling about 6 months ago which took it from being "barely usable" to "almost as good as Zoom". It's different semantics to Discord in that it's classic conferencing rather than a voice channel, but it works well enough for the whole core Matrix team to use it basically constantly for remote collaboration. The conferencing servers are currently in London however, so you ma…

Ah, thank you for the additional information. Is my grapevine information correct that more work will be done to improve video calls and screensharing in the coming months?

As an example of what could be improved, I do still encounter the occasional bug with call synchronization, the video stream of one of the sides not getting started on occasion and screensharing is hardly discoverable.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#198

Post by kethinov »

bloopernova wrote: post #177

Has anyone had experience with both Matrix and Mattermost? What are the main differences between the two? Apropos of nothing, currently I am running: * Signal * Wife * Family * Google Hangouts (web) * Friends and ex-coworkers * Slack * Vendor A * Vendor B * Team C * Team D * Keybase * Some friends * SMS * My Stepdaughter * Skype * Coworkers too stubborn to open Mattermost or change what they do * Mattermost * Coworke…

Mattermost is currently a better UX with a more stable codebase, but I suspect that the Matrix/Riot federated model will one day overtake Mattermost.

Personally I use Mattermost at work and Matrix/Riot for personal chat. If Matrix/Riot began to overtake Mattermost in terms of UX, we would probably replace Mattermost with Matrix/Riot at work.

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#199

Post by bloopernova »

kethinov wrote: post #198
bloopernova wrote: post #177

Has anyone had experience with both Matrix and Mattermost? What are the main differences between the two? Apropos of nothing, currently I am running: * Signal * Wife * Family * Google Hangouts (web) * Friends and ex-coworkers * Slack * Vendor A * Vendor B * Team C * Team D * Keybase * Some friends * SMS * My Stepdaughter * Skype * Coworkers too stubborn to open Mattermost or change what they do * Mattermost * Coworke…

Mattermost is currently a better UX with a more stable codebase, but I suspect that the Matrix/Riot federated model will one day overtake Mattermost. Personally I use Mattermost at work and Matrix/Riot for personal chat. If Matrix/Riot began to overtake Mattermost in terms of UX, we would probably replace Mattermost with Matrix/Riot at work.

Thank you!

Re: Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision

#200

Post by feanaro »

Arathorn wrote: post #161
lousken wrote: post #160

So after testing matrix and riot with friends for a couple of months, there're still a ton of work to be done. We all used the most common setup - matrix.org homeserver, riot and riotX as apps. (Also please don't point me to dev version, I am only considering what's in stable.) Random stuff not in particular order: 1a) e2e is a choice that affects experience in riot, a lot - you can't use search, you don't see recent…

1a/1b and 2 is where all our work is going currently. We're trying to get E2E on by default in Jan, and likewise exit beta for RiotX/Android around the same time. We're going as fast as we can. 3: Matrix.org homeserver performance should be absolutely fine now. Delays when doing things like joining big rooms are unrelated to the hardware, but perf optimisations we need to do to synapse in general. They're on the rada…

On 4, yes, please support "copy entire message". It already works if the entire message is a code block, and it's unfortunate there is no alternative when it is not.

I've often encountered this when I paste one of my Markdown notes from my knowledge base into the chat in order for it to be rendered so that the other participants may read it in a visually appealing form. But then I decide that I also want to give this same note to someone else in another room, but there's no way to copy the message and simply paste it at the new destination.

Conversely, sometimes I write a worthwhile Markdown note directly in Riot and I'd like to save it in my notes system, but it's hard since there is no "copy entire message" button.

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