Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 451 posts

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#261

Post by abnry »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #253
mypalmike wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but even without getting into the details of UX tradeoffs, etc... Google Maps was science fiction in 1983. The whole thread misses the fact that the functionality we have in our pockets today would have absolutely blown our minds in 1983. How can it be called perceptually slower?

Simple. Because it got slower over time . All these threads about software being worse and "perceptually slower" than it used to are about regressions . Google Maps and other mentioned tools aren't pushing the envelope. They aren't bleeding edge. They were science fiction made manifest 10-15 years ago, and since then actually decayed in utility, ergonomics and performance. Meanwhile, all the money invested in all the…

I get your point, and it has its merit, but at some point you'd expect things to slow down, right?

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#262

Post by frobozz »

PaulHoule wrote: post #192
frobozz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not conducted a survey, but they strike me as reasonably common desires. On a 4-5 hour road trip, I want to take the kids to see a castle or something somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 of the way. Even just wanting to have lunch somewhere other than Hilton Park or Newport Pagnell would be such a use case. I have also wanted it for visiting someone - I'm going to their house, what is my most convenient option for buy…

I think there is an anti-car bias in Google Maps and similar services. Everything is oriented around the model of "reserve a hotel", "reserve a flight", like you really are on rails like a European. Today's online maps aren't up to the freedom that motorists have to make small deviations from a route. For instance if I drive from here to Boston I am likely to stay at a hotel en-route, that could be anywhere from Alba…

My "big time gap" example is explicitly a non-car use case.

The visiting example for me is normally a non-car use case. If going by car, I would probably pick these things up close to home and carry them all the way.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#263

Post by rayiner »

Computers jumped the shark in 1998. I remember dual-booting NT4 and BeOS on a PII 300 MHz with 64MB of RAM. Connected to a 256 kbps SDSL modem, it’s the best computing experience I’ve ever had. You could do everything you can on a modern machine. Indeed, even more, because the modern versions of software like OneNote and Word are neutered compared to the ‘97 versions.

It feels like all of this effort has been spent making computer interfaces worse. The only improvement I can point to between MFC and a modern web UI is DPI scalability. Besides that, there are tons of regressions, from keyboard accessibility to consistency in look, feel, and operation.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#264

Post by cgh »

lolc wrote: post #126

What bugs me about these nostalgic rants is that somehow the convenience of today should be mixed with the frugal interfaces of the past. So you couldn't be bothered to find a better route planner and defaulted to Google Maps? Which you got for free, instantly available? And now you're unhappy because it doesn't do exactly what you want? Please spend some effort on your tool selection before you spend time ranting. A…

His general point is that the point and click interface is a blunt tool and there is room for specialisation. The POS example in the tweet-rant is ugly and non-intuitive but the perfect tool for the job. I'm not sure how I'd improve Google Maps exactly because I haven't really thought about it, but I do find it frustrating enough that I end up breaking out the good old BC Backroad Mapbook from time to time[0].

0. https://www.backroadmapbooks.com/

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#265

Post by iterati »

eitland wrote: post #256
iterati wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't break down your steps like the parent did. Here's your way: 1) Open app 2) Search for start 3) Select start 4) Search for destination 5) Select destination 6) Click directions Here's the parent's way: 1) Open app 2) Search destination 3) Select destination 4) Select directions 5) Search for start 6) Select start They're the same process.

No it was literally 4 actions (3 if you accepted the default starting point) and the the same amount of typing the current solution. I didn't summarize anything. 1. Open app in navigation mode (there was a separate icon for that) 2. Accept default start or type if you don't want the default. 3. Point at destination 4. Type destination and enter Besides it was immediately obvious when I opened the app for the first ti…

It's immediately obvious to me how to use it now. And if you accept the default start then both solutions are still the same.

Gmaps right now works like this:

1) Open App 2) Click search box 3) Either select a destination from the list that pops up or start typing and actually search. Once that's done the route pops up with your travel time. 4) Click start

If you want to change your start:

4) Select the starting location 5) Search or select from the list that pops up and your route and travel time are show. 6) Click start

It's not rocket science. It's all obvious from the UI.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#266

Post by eitland »

StavrosK wrote: post #252
eitland wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straight away after you open Google Maps on a mobile?

No, I open it, look for the destination, then press directions and can edit the starting point.

Then we agree. I find that utterly annoying since I've seen how simple it could be but it seems many people disagree with me :-)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#267

Post by Avamander »

kabdib wrote: post #233
throwGuardian wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An SSD can make a world of difference. Most of the time spent during boot up is in executing random reads (of about 4Kb size) from storage, and SSDs are a factor of magnitude faster there

Sorry, most of a box's boot time is the BIOS and other stuff. The servers I run at work take 3-4 minutes to boot, the last twenty seconds or so is the OS coming up. The consumer PCs I use have a similar ratio. POST time is crazy bad. It's almost like the engineers working on it don't care.

UEFI Fast boot improves it significantly on modern hardware.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#268

Post by IggleSniggle »

ineedasername wrote: post #175
normalnorm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. So you are telling me that wanting to see the name of a given street without having to zoom 10000x (and even then sometimes...) or figuring out how to get the directions to and from somewhere are "power users needs"? Give me a break. Google maps was way easier to user as a map b…

Getting directions is simple. Even the author doesn't take issue with that specific functionality. And I've never had an issue with Google maps hiding street names when there was ample room to show them, but if you're more than a little zoomed out, there isn't that room. Showing only major roads is a decent trade off, as is the mouse scroll wheel for zoom in/out. Or maybe it's my own failure of imagination: how would…

I've given up on street names. The problem of unlabeled street names is worst in cities (where you generally need directions the most) because the GPS has a high chance of being lost due to tall buildings and other disruptions.

I should be able to get directions without having the GPS. If the GPS is lost, I really need those street names, NOW, without touching my phone.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#269

Post by ryandrake »

Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This is a very hard rant to read. The examples either aren't factually true or are poorly explained and the "solution" is largely nebulous. I feel like this topic has merit and with a well written article with real examples (both 2019 and 83) it could be something special, but this isn't that. I'd be interested to know how many upvoted based on the title/what they expected this to be, rather than after having tried t…

A better rant is “24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse” [1].

The thing I want to say when I hear programmers ranting about software performance is: Dude, you’re part of the problem! It’s like the guy who complains about traffic while sitting in his car on the freeway. You’re part of the problem and can help fix it. Everyone who put a spinner in rather than fix the underlying performance issue is part of the problem. Everyone who chose a slower interpreted language to sacrifice runtime speed for development speed is part of the problem. Everyone making a web request for something they can cache or compute faster locally is part of the problem. Anyone who makes their web site 2MB of Javascript around 20K of content is part of the problem. Collectively we are all doing this to ourselves little by little, and as experts and programmers we have the power to correct it, so do your part and correct it in your own software rather than just complaining!

1: https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/24-core-cpu-and...

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#270

Post by rconti »

sonofaplum wrote: post #53
PostPost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example for maps is not a "hyper specific use case": "The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding." That's a common use case. The problem with Google maps (and the problem with a lot of modern software) is, as you say, it makes a lot of gu…

Why do you think that use case is that common? And why do you think google maps should elevate that particular use case above other competing use cases?

That's how I plan virtually every multi-stop journey. And adding this functionality would not take away from the usability of gmaps for single-leg journeys with no stops.
Post reply on HN