Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#251

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #195

PostPost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example for maps is not a "hyper specific use case": "The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding." That's a common use case. The problem with Google maps (and the problem with a lot of modern software) is, as you say, it makes a lot of gu…

> The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding Am I missing something - this use-case is already supported! You choose start & endpoints, then your start the trip (which "saves" them) - you can now search and add as many waypoints as you desire

I've been using Google Maps since it launched, and had no idea this is how it works!

One important factor in a good UI is that it is discoverable! If you build an amazing feature but forget to inform the user about it, you've wasted the work.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#252

Post by StavrosK » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #228

StavrosK wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it? It gives me two boxes, "current location" and "destination" and I can change either.

Straight away after you open Google Maps on a mobile?

No, I open it, look for the destination, then press directions and can edit the starting point.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#253

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

mypalmike wrote: post #227

sonofaplum wrote: post #20

There are some good points here, but of course I am going to ignore those to talk instead about the stuff I disagree with! The section about google maps follows a form of criticism that is widespread and particularly annoys me, namely => popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. There is always room for improvement, but a…

Indeed, but even without getting into the details of UX tradeoffs, etc... Google Maps was science fiction in 1983. The whole thread misses the fact that the functionality we have in our pockets today would have absolutely blown our minds in 1983. How can it be called perceptually slower?

Simple. Because it got slower over time.

All these threads about software being worse and "perceptually slower" than it used to are about regressions. Google Maps and other mentioned tools aren't pushing the envelope. They aren't bleeding edge. They were science fiction made manifest 10-15 years ago, and since then actually decayed in utility, ergonomics and performance. Meanwhile, all the money invested in all the software and hardware should have given us the opposite outcome.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#254

Post by xenocyon » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

sonofaplum wrote: post #20

There are some good points here, but of course I am going to ignore those to talk instead about the stuff I disagree with! The section about google maps follows a form of criticism that is widespread and particularly annoys me, namely => popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. There is always room for improvement, but a…

It's not just about 'power users', and you can see this easily by looking at car dashboard controls for standard consumer cars over the last couple of decades. Old controls had the property that you could in most cases feel and adjust them without looking, and they responded instantly. Today one is often forced to interact with a touchscreen which has to be looked at it while driving, responds poorly and erratically to touch, and often buries basic options in deep menus. A simple thing like lowering stereo volume, previously instantaneous, can now have a significant latency.

None of the above is about power users. And none of this is innate to today's hardware. It's a matter of prioritization.

And consumers, though initially swayed by shiny objects, do eventually respond to good design and good engineering. Indeed Google itself found its early success partly through clean and thoughtful design, at a time when other search engine websites were massively cluttered and banner ads were the bane of the Web.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#255

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

Fabricio20 wrote: post #245

dexen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I do think Windows seems to do a little better software-wise too Windows 10 does a little trick to speed up boot - when you perform a shutdown, Windows 10 saves a mini-hibernation image to the hibernation file. When you perform normal boot, it can start up quite fast[1]. This gives noticeably shorter boot time especially on spinning rust drives (i know, i know, $CURRENT_YEAR). However if you perform a "reboot" i…

This exact hibernation feature is what I feel is making my shutdowns slower! I've been rocking an M.2 ssd for quite some time now and Win10 _always_ takes a considerate 1-2 minutes to shutdown.

Wouldn't even dumping literally all ram contents take only a few seconds on an NVMe drive? It's probably something else.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#256

Post by eitland » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

iterati wrote: post #241

eitland wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is 9 or so manual steps and it doesn't become clear until step 7 or so that it can even be done! There's nothing intuitive about this and when someone knows how it works that must be because they've either learned it from someone or kept on experimenting with it until they figured it out. compare this to the original that they "simplified" away: - Open app in navigation mode (step 1) - it shows two boxes, where…

You didn't break down your steps like the parent did. Here's your way: 1) Open app 2) Search for start 3) Select start 4) Search for destination 5) Select destination 6) Click directions Here's the parent's way: 1) Open app 2) Search destination 3) Select destination 4) Select directions 5) Search for start 6) Select start They're the same process.

No it was literally 4 actions (3 if you accepted the default starting point) and the the same amount of typing the current solution. I didn't summarize anything.

1. Open app in navigation mode (there was a separate icon for that)

2. Accept default start or type if you don't want the default.

3. Point at destination

4. Type destination and enter

Besides it was immediately obvious when I opened the app for the first time on my first smartphone, it just made sense and still does when I think about it.

Edit: I reread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21836204

I exaggerated wildly and can get it down to 5 steps. It is by definition discoverable since we have all discovered it, but I hold that it is still not obvious or self-explanatory in any way.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#257

Post by AStellersSeaCow » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

To call this rose-tinted glasses when considering how things worked in 1983 is a massive understatement.

A counterexample: in 1983, enter two search terms, one of them slightly misspelled or misremembered, hit f3: "no results", spend 10 minutes trying to find the needle in the haystack, give up and physically search for the thing yourself.

Enter two search terms slightly incorrectly now: no of the time it will know exactly what you want, may even autocorrect a typo locally, get your accurate search results in a second.

When things were faster 30+ years ago (and they absolutely were NOT the vast majority of the time, this example cherry picked one of the few instances that they were), it was because the use case was hyperspecific, hyperlocalized to a platform, and the fussy and often counterintuitive interfaces served as guard rails.

The article has absolutely valid points on ways UIs have been tuned in odd ways (often to make them usable, albeit suboptimally, for the very different inputs of touch and mouse), but the obsession about speed being worse now borders on quixotic. Software back then was, at absolute best, akin to a drag racer - if all you want to do it move 200 meters in one predetermined direction then sometimes is was fine. Want to go 300 meters, or go in a slightly different direction, or don't know how to drive a drag racer? Sorry, need to find a different car/course/detailed instruction manual.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#258

Post by j88439h84 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

kabdib wrote: post #72

I had an Atari ST in a closet, and decided to get rid of it a while back. I pulled it out to test it. The boot sequence, all the way to a desktop with a mouse that moves, takes less than one second. If you boot from a hard drive, maybe another second. For a while I just kept hitting the reset button, marveling at the speed at which the ST came up. Most machines I work with these days take minutes to get rolling. Okay…

Great story.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#259

Post by gsich » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

asdfman123 wrote: post #125

Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This is a very hard rant to read. The examples either aren't factually true or are poorly explained and the "solution" is largely nebulous. I feel like this topic has merit and with a well written article with real examples (both 2019 and 83) it could be something special, but this isn't that. I'd be interested to know how many upvoted based on the title/what they expected this to be, rather than after having tried t…

I appreciated his complaints, but not his solution. Only a programmer would think that going back to keyboards is a good idea. Most people are happy waiting for a few seconds for their webpage to load, if it means they can do it without learning anything new. Programming is a profession, and we design software for people who have other interests than software. Many of us would be better off if we got better at empath…

>Most people are happy waiting for a few seconds for their webpage to load, if it means they can do it without learning anything new.

Ignorance is bliss. Show them a fast way and they don't want to go back. Unless your software has a "fast" and a "slow" mode you can't make assumptions that those users are "happy" with that delay.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#260

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

frobozz wrote: post #128

sonofaplum wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that use case is that common? And why do you think google maps should elevate that particular use case above other competing use cases?

I have not conducted a survey, but they strike me as reasonably common desires. On a 4-5 hour road trip, I want to take the kids to see a castle or something somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 of the way. Even just wanting to have lunch somewhere other than Hilton Park or Newport Pagnell would be such a use case. I have also wanted it for visiting someone - I'm going to their house, what is my most convenient option for buy…

[deleted]