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State of JavaScript 2019

2019.stateofjs.com

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Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#291

Post by Epskampie »

tomduncalf wrote: post #167
bradchris wrote: post #95

Wow, just learned of Svelte from this. After reading their explanatory blog post and coming upon this blurb: That all changed with the advent of hooks [React and Vue], which handle state in a very different fashion. Many frameworks started experimenting with their own implementations of hooks, but we quickly concluded it wasn't a direction we wanted to go in ... We can just use the language. Updating some count value…

FWIW, MobX lets you mutate state in the same way. It does require you to make use of its observer/observable functions to make things reactive, but in general it works amazingly well. I strongly urge everyone to try it!

Agreed. I feel so weird seeing everyone messing around with hooks while all the time I've been using what feels to me like a much simpler better solution.

If you know React, look at the "Ten minute introduction to MobX and React" to see if it's for you. https://mobx.js.org/getting-started.html

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#292

Post by jermaustin1 »

How do 3.6% of respondents have more than 20 years of experience in TypeScript? And 21.7% have more than 10 years?

EDIT - They don't. They have 10+ years using JavaScript

TypeScript was released in 2012, sure there are early adopters and beta users, but I seriously doubt that nearly 22% of the people using TypeScript prior to it being released.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#293

Post by someexgamedev »

codegladiator wrote: post #226
someexgamedev wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ember uses MVVM

Fair enough, but I still think its a stretch to call MVC "outdated". And "outdated" kind of has a hint of "bad" and "should not be used", hence the question.

Oh yeah I also don't agree with OP. Separation of concerns is good. JSX isn't perfect either.

This yearly js poll always brings out the fanboys. The amount of "heard of it but would never try it" responses demonstrates that it's just a popularity contest

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#294

Post by nailer »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #263
nailer wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Svelte is the next thing. Backbone and Angular were great, but then came Vue and React. Vue and React were great, but then came Svelte. It's: - Simpler. You change values with `=` not some method call. - Faster, as the svelte compiler dynamically creates bindings at build time, vs a virtual DOM that has to dynamically track binding at run time - Smaller, since Svelte's output doesn't include Svelte.

Svelte is just a web framework, React is a software framework. Then there's the missing Typescript support... That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again. I'll continue to use React so I can simply use Typescript for my components, not some random syntax. My styles are typed, my components are typed, my state is typed. Why would I ever go back?

> That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again.

> I'll continue to use React

React also created it's own syntax. Svelte's syntax looks more similar to preceding work than React's syntax did.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#295

Post by doublement »

ezzzzz wrote: post #228
cstuder wrote: post #7

The most interesting data in my opinion are the conflicting opinions on the overall state of the ecosystem:: https://2019.stateofjs.com/opinions/ While there is a sharp downtick of people who think that JavaScript is moving in the right directin, most agree that the overall situation in terms of complexity and velocity is getting better. I don't have any explanation for this, but would agree: Developing in JavaScript…

I get Javascript fatigue, and all the criticisms aimed at the language, and while it's not totally ideal, I feel frameworks have helped tremendously by either being opinionated enough that you can do things in a predictable way (angular/vue) or are flexible enough to design complex flows and views as small, easy to reason about components (React/Redux). I have seen some horrible stuff as an enterprise dev, from poorl…

I work with JS as a low percentage of my total work, and recently tried to bring a 2-year-old Vue-based project up to date with the latest versions of everything.

I failed in my task. With these frameworks, given enough time, there ends up being a lot of "deprecated boilerplate" code, either directly or via dependencies. E.g. Vue is closely coupled to Webpack, and Webpack deprecated so many things between versions 2 and 4, that there's essentially no mechanical way to migrate the code. One must figure out every detail of the auto-generated Webpack config from version 2 and figure out how to do the same thing in version 4. (I'm looking at you, CommonsChunk and splitchunks!)

Legacy applications from the days of yore didn't "bit-rot" like this.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#296

Post by desdiv »

erokar wrote: post #272
bradchris wrote: post #95

Wow, just learned of Svelte from this. After reading their explanatory blog post and coming upon this blurb: That all changed with the advent of hooks [React and Vue], which handle state in a very different fashion. Many frameworks started experimenting with their own implementations of hooks, but we quickly concluded it wasn't a direction we wanted to go in ... We can just use the language. Updating some count value…

Svelte seems promising. I think it's a natural evolution from what I think is an over focus on FP and purity in React, to a more natural and intuitive DX without significant drawbacks. Svelte does have an irritating wart IMO, citing their tutorial: Because Svelte's reactivity is triggered by assignments, using array methods like push and splice won't automatically cause updates. So for reference types that are mutate…

I'm a huge fan of persistent data structures such as those implemented by immutable.js. The "normal" way that I would update an immutable.js List is just:

numbers = numbers.push(numbers.length + 1);

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Svelte seems awfully congruent with the pure FP way of doing things.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#297

Post by asdff »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #292

How do 3.6% of respondents have more than 20 years of experience in TypeScript? And 21.7% have more than 10 years? EDIT - They don't. They have 10+ years using JavaScript TypeScript was released in 2012, sure there are early adopters and beta users, but I seriously doubt that nearly 22% of the people using TypeScript prior to it being released.

Either they are padding themselves on an anonymous survey for that sweet sweet ego validation or they have gaslighted their own experiences. Makes me pretty incredulous at the quality of this sample.

It could also be some prick who converts 80 hour weeks into years of experience x2.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#298

Post by ma2rten »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #76
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #21

Wow, 39.9% of respondents mark themselves as "Expert" at CSS. I've been doing front-end in various guises for 12 years and I would only rank myself maybe 5 or 6 out of 10. As I've gotten more experienced in my career I've become more aware of what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. It's funny that "Advanced" is mastering animations and transitions whereas "Expert" is being able to develop a full-front end con…

Half of my income is from training people in JS and Python. I have 50% of those missions that are requested to be "advanced" courses. The vast majority of the participants are not up to the task. They are paid professionnals, but they consistently overestimate they level, skills and needs. They often are not very good, and of course, they don't know what they don't know. So I always check for that first, and rewrite…

This is the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#299

Post by mando75 »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #292

How do 3.6% of respondents have more than 20 years of experience in TypeScript? And 21.7% have more than 10 years? EDIT - They don't. They have 10+ years using JavaScript TypeScript was released in 2012, sure there are early adopters and beta users, but I seriously doubt that nearly 22% of the people using TypeScript prior to it being released.

I believe the question you are referring to is asking what general level of experience TypeScript developers have. I too was a bit taken aback when I saw that. I had to reread the question. They should have done a better job making that clear in the chart for people just skimming the data. https://2019.stateofjs.com/javascript-flavors/#javascript_fl...

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#300

Post by vcanales »

deathtrader666 wrote: post #6

EmberJS should not be in the "avoid' section.. it is one of the most well thought-out framework which just gets the job done.. and it is a bit contra-indicatory that Ember guys are the highest paid.

the ember PR department went full blast on the replies to this.
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