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State of JavaScript 2019

2019.stateofjs.com

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Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#91

Post by yitianjian »

rhacker wrote: post #11
cstuder wrote: post #7

The most interesting data in my opinion are the conflicting opinions on the overall state of the ecosystem:: https://2019.stateofjs.com/opinions/ While there is a sharp downtick of people who think that JavaScript is moving in the right directin, most agree that the overall situation in terms of complexity and velocity is getting better. I don't have any explanation for this, but would agree: Developing in JavaScript…

Generally have to agree there, but I do feel like there is a reason. ES6 modules (or typescript modules) and the simple fact that the variability is finally dropping: It seems like there was one specific winner of all of the UI frameworks. React. There is now pretty much one specific winner to package managers. Yarn. There is one specific winner for language front-end: Typescript. There are basically two front-end bu…

Disagree on yarn - npm is still trying to keep up and the latest releases are doing well

Seems like within React, Redux/Apollo/plain is splitting the data layer again too

But the yarn/npm is a tiny difference and data layer is much more application specific

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#92

Post by 734129837261 »

jevgeni wrote: post #86
734129837261 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see the point of strong typed programming. JavaScript is fine without it. I've been working with TypeScript for a while now and I never think "this solves a problem I had!" On the contrary, I constantly think "why..." I feel strong typing JS is just a result of backend developers not questioning their upbringings and failing to use proper naming conventions, progressive enhancement in the form of JSDOC…

Aren't you describing exactly the problems types help with? Must be a reason why typed backend developers allegedly don't pay so much mind to: - "proper" naming conventions - JSDOC comments - unit tests - peer review

So, I've worked with JavaScript since 2001. Up until two years ago I never used a strong typed flavour on top of JS.

And I have never needed it. Not in big teams and not in small teams.

At work we recently did a timed programming problem solving competition. 20 Teams got 1 hour each to solve multiple levels of the same problems. Some teams used TypeScript.

None of the TypeScript teams got past level 5. All of the rest got past level 15.

I've been taking job applications where applicants get a limited amount of time to make their project. Let's say 20 hours, and it's a paid job. Everyone gets the same instructions.

Those who use TS are NEVER feature complete.

Coincidentally, those who use TS are also the ones who deliver one big DIV-soup and barely seem to understand CSS to begin with.

Strong typed JavaScript doesn't solve anything, in my opinion. And nobody has been able to convince me otherwise. TypeScript seems to be a reason for many developers to completely avoid documenting their code...

I mean, TSDOC or JSDOC allows you to write human-readable comments AND strong type your code where it matters. But they don't.

In any case, this article was a fun one to read:

https://medium.com/javascript-scene/the-typescript-tax-132ff...

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#93

Post by perk »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #21

Wow, 39.9% of respondents mark themselves as "Expert" at CSS. I've been doing front-end in various guises for 12 years and I would only rank myself maybe 5 or 6 out of 10. As I've gotten more experienced in my career I've become more aware of what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. It's funny that "Advanced" is mastering animations and transitions whereas "Expert" is being able to develop a full-front end con…

Wrote my first piece of CSS in 1998, been doing it ever since. On a good day I'm a 4 :)

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#94

Post by 734129837261 »

hacker_9 wrote: post #84
734129837261 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular ng-is ng-very ng-opinionated and requires a ton of boilerplate knowledge. It requires typescript knowledge, and I've noticed that (finally!) a lot of developers are realising that typescript actually doesn't make life easier at all. React, on the other hand, is a very intuitive library instead of an all-encompassing framework. You can easily setup a React application in a few seconds and get started, adding w…

Typescript doesn't make things easier, and react is intuitive? You know April fool's is still a few months away right?

TypeScript slows down a project. Nobody seems to ever point out what benefits it supposedly offers.

My claim: TypeScript offers no benefit. Ever. That's 2 years of fulltime TS experience talking and 18 years of fulltime JavaScript experience, on top of a whole bunch of full stack (Java and .Net with C#) experience.

I think the popularity of TS is going to decline. And I think it's only popular because of the influx of backend developers coming into the frontend. Additionally, because "everybody does it so it must be professional so I should like it".

As for React, well, great argument, I guess?

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#95

Post by bradchris »

Wow, just learned of Svelte from this. After reading their explanatory blog post and coming upon this blurb:

  That all changed with the advent of hooks [React and Vue], 
  which handle state in a very different fashion. Many 
  frameworks started experimenting with their own 
  implementations of hooks, but we quickly concluded it 
  wasn't a direction we wanted to go in 
  ...
  We can just use the language. Updating some count value — and 
  all the things that depend on it — should be as simple as 
  this:

    count += 1;
That's super exciting to me, as it puts the emphasis back on solving the task at hand and instead of framework nuances around state management. Will definitely be keeping my eyes on it.

https://svelte.dev/blog/svelte-3-rethinking-reactivity

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#96

Post by josteink »

734129837261 wrote: post #67
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #21

Wow, 39.9% of respondents mark themselves as "Expert" at CSS. I've been doing front-end in various guises for 12 years and I would only rank myself maybe 5 or 6 out of 10. As I've gotten more experienced in my career I've become more aware of what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. It's funny that "Advanced" is mastering animations and transitions whereas "Expert" is being able to develop a full-front end con…

I've been taking job applications from other frontend developers in the Silicon Valley fortune 500 area of work. Most resumes that get past the initial recruiter interview and make it to a tech review and claim expert knowledge of CSS... They don't. They don't know shit. They can often not answer basic flexbox questions. Not to mention CSS grid questions. And if you start questioning them about CSS animation performa…

> I could go on and on about the horror that is typescript

As someone who has seen great improvements in delivered productivity and quality across an entire organization, more or less due to Typescript alone, I would be eager to hear what your complaints are.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#97

Post by tybit »

donkeyd wrote: post #89
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #21

Wow, 39.9% of respondents mark themselves as "Expert" at CSS. I've been doing front-end in various guises for 12 years and I would only rank myself maybe 5 or 6 out of 10. As I've gotten more experienced in my career I've become more aware of what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. It's funny that "Advanced" is mastering animations and transitions whereas "Expert" is being able to develop a full-front end con…

I got a resume a while ago where the applicant rated their skills 1-5 stars. They has rated themselves either 3 or 4 out of 5 in Node.js. When asking what they actually did with node, they explained they built some proof of concept once. I got to see the code and it was maybe 4 weeks of work for a beginner... At that time I was leading a small Node.js dev team and I would maybe rate myself 3/5 in Node. We didn't end…

To be honest the problem here is the question not the answer. It’s a bad question and shouldn’t be asked.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#99

Post by bakuninsbart »

gherkinnn wrote: post #83
734129837261 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular ng-is ng-very ng-opinionated and requires a ton of boilerplate knowledge. It requires typescript knowledge, and I've noticed that (finally!) a lot of developers are realising that typescript actually doesn't make life easier at all. React, on the other hand, is a very intuitive library instead of an all-encompassing framework. You can easily setup a React application in a few seconds and get started, adding w…

What’s with all the TS hate?

In my experience, people who have been experts on JS before TypeScript became a thing hate it. - It doesn't give them any advantages, while severely limiting their options and workflow. For newer developers with background in other languages it is quite nice though.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#100

Post by arvinsim »

734129837261 wrote: post #67
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #21

Wow, 39.9% of respondents mark themselves as "Expert" at CSS. I've been doing front-end in various guises for 12 years and I would only rank myself maybe 5 or 6 out of 10. As I've gotten more experienced in my career I've become more aware of what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. It's funny that "Advanced" is mastering animations and transitions whereas "Expert" is being able to develop a full-front end con…

I've been taking job applications from other frontend developers in the Silicon Valley fortune 500 area of work. Most resumes that get past the initial recruiter interview and make it to a tech review and claim expert knowledge of CSS... They don't. They don't know shit. They can often not answer basic flexbox questions. Not to mention CSS grid questions. And if you start questioning them about CSS animation performa…

This is what happens when front end is marketed as "easy to get into".

I have 2 acquaintances who work in the medical field ask me about how to pivot to frontend web development. When they asked me about it, I told them that a modern frontend developer needs to at least know one of the major frameworks(ReactJS, VueJS, Angular).

They replied to me in surprise. "You mean CSS and HTML, right?"

That one made me mull over if I should get out of frontend web development altogether.

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