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Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

nytimes.com

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Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#201

Post by throwno »

Noos wrote: post #108
hiram112 wrote: post #49

I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex, which I feel is just as much of a "right" as is the right for women to obtain an abortion. No I don't believe taxpayers should be required to pay for prostitutes, nor for abortions. But the market for both should be decriminalized. Not only is this something that is morally right, t…

No, it isn't the only way for many men to do so. The issue is that they don't want to put in the time or effort to be the kind of man that can, and they have radically unrealistic expectation of sex itself. No, you cannot bang a supermodel, but you can find a woman who loves you and will be with you. No, men don't have a right to sex, because it involves a woman surrendering herself; its not something innate to the m…

Do you also apply this argument to economic inequality? No, you can't be the CEO, but if you "put in the time or effort to be the kind of man that can" make a living wage, then you don't need to demand socialism. Do low skill workers have an unrealistic expectation of wages? There's a job out there for everybody, you either have to improve yourself to get the wages you desire, or lower your standards. Who's the "inhuman libertarian"? I agree sex workers and their customers should be shunned, but by the same logic, so must socialism.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#202

Post by javagram »

wallace_f wrote: post #144
antihero wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends and ex-partners who are sex workers and seeing this stuff come into action, seeing them get denied at borders, seeing their lives become ever more dangerous has been utterly soul crushing. Sex worker rights is a huge frontier that we need to fight harder on, sex trafficking and sex work are two different things, and spiting workers because you find them unsavoury or want to be their saviour under the v…

I'm always puzzled by all the Americans who travel to Asia for all the local markets: everything from food, to personal care, to sex markets, to even medical care. My dental care in Taiwan has been extraordinarily cheap and very good. And yet then I come back to America and see the same people ostensibly support the same authoritarian politicians, police and bureaucrats who spend taxpayer money on authoritarian polic…

40% of Americans have never left the country.

Of the 60% who have, there are surely many of us who weren’t doing it to travel to Thailand for prostitutes. I suspect the number of people who are doing that are a small fraction of the population (of the people I know who have traveled abroad, that percentage is 0%)

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#203

Post by mc32 »

refurb wrote: post #188
0xcafecafe wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived here (US) for close to 15 years, what I find baffling is that some of the voting isn't even that myopic. It is so strongly ideology based that a poor coal miner would vote for a politician who would gut his healthcare and scream "socialism is bad" at any alternative which might actually be beneficial to them in the short term.

The reason it’s baffling to you is because you’re viewing it through your own ideological bias. Maybe, just maybe, that poor coal miner knows exactly what he’s voting for because that’s what he wants?

Exactly! No one or very few would question the wealthy when they vote against their self interest. It’s somewhat condescending to accept wealthy people voting against their immediate self interest and at the same time condemning the poor for voting against their perceived self interest from the POV of non poor people.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#204

Post by SN76477 »

abstractbarista wrote: post #182

Its so simple for me. Just like with weed.... Legalize it! Why are we concerning ourselves with how people pleasure themselves in private? It's disgusting. Of course, have law enforcement root out the kiddie stuff, and have a legal framework to ensure safety (STI testing, etc) but my goodness, the efforts we currently go through to catch consenting adults in mutual benefit...

pursuing most crimes are not worth the social or financial impact.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#205

Post by 0xBA5ED »

arnoooooo wrote: post #166
0xBA5ED wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so. There are considerations of tangible consequences for some unconsenting third party. That's the difference. Outlawing something "because it's wrong" is different than outlawing something because it wrongs someone.

There is no definition of "because it's wrong" where no one is wronged, unless you bring in religion. Still, someone can be wronged with their consent. Consent is not binary. That's why there are minimum salary laws for instance : so that there's not a competition to the bottom. When it comes to prostitution, the fact that huge numbers of prostitutes are former victims of abuse, for instance, should tell you that som…

We're off on a tangent now, but you don't need religion to believe a victimless act to be immoral. All I was getting at is laws are not made strictly on moral grounds (rightfully so) and perhaps that's what "legislating morality" was referring to.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#206

Post by neurobashing »

overcast wrote: post #172
bdhdbbdbdjdns wrote: post #104

As an occasional consumer of sex work, here is the reality: yes, It’s more dangerous now for both parties, but much more so for the women. The labor supply has gone down sharply because the economics went upside down. If you can’t count on as many clients per day the fixed cost of the hotel room becomes harder to risk so many girls exited the market. Prices have gone up sharply. The kind of girls that were charging $…

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is your use case for paying for sex? Married? High powered executive? I can't imagine paying for something that is easily free on a million different dating apps.

Tinder (and presumably, dating apps in general) are in reality likely horrible for actually meeting people [1] [2].

[1] https://theoutline.com/post/3402/tinder-is-not-actually-for-... [2] https://theoutline.com/post/3711/the-tinder-struggle-visuali...

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#207

Post by AsyncAwait »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #116
paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

It seems to be a universal phenomenon (I see similar trends in many European countries, including mine) and I wouldn't use the word "played". The left seems to be as keen on legislating morality as the right.

Except that there's no universal definition of the left, what you're thinking about is usually the "center-left", who use social issues to avoid addressing economics and smear these to their own left, who usually oppose their policies.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#208

Post by blackearl »

excalibur wrote: post #197
abstractbarista wrote: post #182

Its so simple for me. Just like with weed.... Legalize it! Why are we concerning ourselves with how people pleasure themselves in private? It's disgusting. Of course, have law enforcement root out the kiddie stuff, and have a legal framework to ensure safety (STI testing, etc) but my goodness, the efforts we currently go through to catch consenting adults in mutual benefit...

There is no federal prohibition against prostitution like there is against marijuana. This can be effectively accomplished at the State or even local level. Talk to your representatives, start ballot initiatives. Another avenue that may be worth exploring is opening brothels on reservations, similar to casinos.

Rhode Island accidentally did it for a while.

(yes accidentally) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/when-...

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#209

Post by burnte »

jandrese wrote: post #193
burnte wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was one of the big reasons the gov't claimed they shut it down. https://u.osu.edu/osuhtblog/2018/04/17/backpage-com-and-chil...

Didn't that turn out to be bullshit though?

Even so, it's a dumb reason when the alternative is to keep it going as a trap.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#210

Post by mattferderer »

overcast wrote: post #172
bdhdbbdbdjdns wrote: post #104

As an occasional consumer of sex work, here is the reality: yes, It’s more dangerous now for both parties, but much more so for the women. The labor supply has gone down sharply because the economics went upside down. If you can’t count on as many clients per day the fixed cost of the hotel room becomes harder to risk so many girls exited the market. Prices have gone up sharply. The kind of girls that were charging $…

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is your use case for paying for sex? Married? High powered executive? I can't imagine paying for something that is easily free on a million different dating apps.

Tim Ferris did an episode with a lady named Alice Little who was referenced to as the highest paid sex worker. It explained a lot of reasons why couples or individuals hire her.

https://tim.blog/2017/11/17/alice-little/

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