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A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

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Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#171

Post by oh_sigh »

astrodust wrote: post #129
oh_sigh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true.

Go read the Statue of Liberty.

You probably mean the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, which was written a century after the founding of the nation.

The founding fathers weren't shy about writing their ideas down. If you're going to speak of the founding, maybe you can quote the actual words of the actual founding fathers, instead of a poet 100 years later. Where did they say the country was founded as a refuge for asylum-seekers?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#172

Post by NotSammyHagar »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

We see exactly this kind of thing today. Think about certain political statements to the effect that "immigrants are horrible people and we should keep them out. if we had more immigration it would be horrible". . "But when my forefathers came here, it was different, we were good people , our forefathers did all this great stuff. immigrants today are not like that". So it's clear this willful lying to yourself is still going on.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#173

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #172
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

We see exactly this kind of thing today. Think about certain political statements to the effect that "immigrants are horrible people and we should keep them out. if we had more immigration it would be horrible". . "But when my forefathers came here, it was different, we were good people , our forefathers did all this great stuff. immigrants today are not like that". So it's clear this willful lying to yourself is sti…

Comparing slavery to any critique of immigration (often about illegal immigration!, not any immigration) is surely a stretch. I am sure there is some non-zero number of individuals who think about some races like slaves still, but it is nowhere near the public mainstream.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#174

Post by bryanrasmussen »

wholepointofcc wrote: post #74
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> ethnically cleanse ? Who's talking about ethnic cleansing? We're talking about violence cause as a consequence of the USA's drug policy + CIA interference. The levels of misconception in this thread are remarkable

There is an ongoing history of ethnic cleansing of Mayan and other populations for example, https://caravanmagazine.in/photo-essay/ixil-maya-guatemala-e... - of course it is true that some of the ethnic cleansing history in South America is tightly related to U.S drug policy and CIA interference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide

Yes, I agree, the levels of misconception really are remarkable.

on edit - should have said Central America instead of South America.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#175

Post by ceautery »

jtx22 wrote: post #71
ceautery wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q) "Why did you come here if you knew it would be risky?" A) "I had no way to provide food for my family, and didn't want to be killed by drug cartels."

Millions of people live just fine in Mexico without being targeted by "The Cartels". If you choose to enforce your presence on a country that doesn't want you, you're in the wrong.

They aren't unwanted.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#176

Post by jpster »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

> there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same rules do not apply to white ones as to black ones because they are not the same species, they do not have the same brains/possibilities/rights/etc. Just like they did not grant any freedom to animals or trees.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that Southern whites, who lived in such close proximity to their slaves, actually believed this. It sounds like convenient bullshit that you would try to tell yourself in order to justify what you are doing. You see these people everyday, you speak to them, you own generations of them, and they raise generations of your own children in your house (mammies). Of course you would see enough to know that they are the same species and every bit as human as you are.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#177

Post by kingkawn »

chillwaves wrote: post #169
kingkawn wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seeming difference in methodologies of disenfranchisement is where empires are made and broken

Do I have a right to go on CNN primetime and rant? Does CNN have a right to choose who can use their broadcast platform? Is freedom of association allowed?

You’ve transformed my comment into your favorite straw man.

CNN will not invite you to rant unless you serve a demographic purpose for reaching its audience.

If you associate with the wrong political groups you will be spied on, and your organization will be disrupted intentionally by informants. Yes, in America.

So, as long as you are within the bounds of what the conversation is defined to be you enjoy freedoms, but then what has freedom become if so?

When I said that these distinctions are the determining factors of empires I am saying that these systems function quite similarly, but the distinctions in how they justify themselves are the breathing room where they are successful or fail to convince the population to go along.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#178

Post by greedo »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #173
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see exactly this kind of thing today. Think about certain political statements to the effect that "immigrants are horrible people and we should keep them out. if we had more immigration it would be horrible". . "But when my forefathers came here, it was different, we were good people , our forefathers did all this great stuff. immigrants today are not like that". So it's clear this willful lying to yourself is sti…

Comparing slavery to any critique of immigration (often about illegal immigration!, not any immigration) is surely a stretch. I am sure there is some non-zero number of individuals who think about some races like slaves still, but it is nowhere near the public mainstream.

I have come to the sad conclusion that overestimating the amount of racism is the safest course of thought. It's my obviously anecdotal experience, but I'm continually amazed how many of the people I come in contact with hold racist views.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#179

Post by tasogare »

magic_beans wrote: post #96
tasogare wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget to say these kids didn’t magically lend in jail. They were brought there by their parents that purposely broke immigration laws. They possibly even did it with the idea of appealing to emotion of US citizens to get away with it.

This country was literally founded as a refuge for asylum-seekers.

That country was literally founded because indigenous people couldn't enforce their borders.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#180

Post by astrodust »

oh_sigh wrote: post #171
astrodust wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read the Statue of Liberty.

You probably mean the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, which was written a century after the founding of the nation. The founding fathers weren't shy about writing their ideas down. If you're going to speak of the founding, maybe you can quote the actual words of the actual founding fathers, instead of a poet 100 years later. Where did they say the country was founded as a refuge for asylum-seekers?

Remind me, if you will, who the Pilgrims were?
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