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A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

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Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#161

Post by [deleted] »

larnmar wrote: post #11
HSO wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

„Wage slavery“ and „factory farming“ (aka as concentration camps for other sentient beings) will be viewed unkindly by future generations. Actually, some if us already view it as barbaric but it will need more of us to finally do away with them.

If your conclusion is “well obviously, the people of the future will share my ethics” then you’re missing the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise is humility — to think about how people in the future might think your ethics are wrong and evil — not arrogance.

[deleted]

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#162

Post by Ididntdothis »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

Sorry, from whatever I have read so far they knew exactly what they were doing and knew slavery was a terrible thing.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#163

Post by youdontknowtho »

Gunax wrote: post #90
youdontknowtho wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you also think taxation is theft and Ayn Rand is a great author. I hope you never see a real prison. I'm serious about this. They are horrifying.

Sure, just like I hope you never see a real slave. I am serious about this. It's horrifying. By the way, what do you call a well-treated slave?

Me too? I also hope that I never encounter slavery in real life?

It does happen, and if I did meet someone that was forced into slavery, I would hope that I could find help?

If anything I was defending public school? What the hell are you talking about?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#164

Post by youdontknowtho »

humanrebar wrote: post #116
youdontknowtho wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you grant creationists good faith? How about anti-vaxers? Flat earthers? People have been using free speech absolutism over the last couple of years to popularize poisonous ideas. Should we keep letting that happen? EDIT: Maybe they have an opinion, but frankly that lot don't spin this as an opinion. It's barbarism. It's murder. It's evil. Don't act like their isn't a larger context to all of this.

I just think full term fetuses deserve at least as much legal protection as a pet dog. It's pretty awful to kill a pet when animal shelters are a thing. I understand the desire to group that opinion along with PizzaGate or some other toxic nonsense. That's exactly the sort of cognitive dissonance I'm talking about. I am actually sympathetic to and support single mothers in all sorts of ways, not that people should ha…

[flagged]

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#165

Post by youdontknowtho »

SaintGhurka wrote: post #95
youdontknowtho wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you grant creationists good faith? How about anti-vaxers? Flat earthers? People have been using free speech absolutism over the last couple of years to popularize poisonous ideas. Should we keep letting that happen? EDIT: Maybe they have an opinion, but frankly that lot don't spin this as an opinion. It's barbarism. It's murder. It's evil. Don't act like their isn't a larger context to all of this.

"Do you grant creationists good faith? How about anti-vaxers? Flat earthers?" Yes. All of them. I've never had to do so with a flat-earther simply because I've never met one. But the others? Sure, I treat them like human beings. Marginalizing people for their beliefs will not change their minds but it WILL fracture society. I think some people will side with the "opposing view" simply because they are indignant when…

Like I said, nothing happens in a vacuum. People in the anti-abortion camp routinely call people evil, demon possessed, and immoral. They have killed people. There are bills passing now that force women to undergo unneeded medical procedures.

Somehow I'm being sanctimonious because I'm not going to pretend that there is no historical context to all of this.

That's what they have been doing this whole time. The far-right pushes against the bounds of decency and then the center-right says that you aren't being civil when someone brings it up.

I'm not marginalizing anyone. I'm just not going to pretend that there is no larger context.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#166

Post by danharaj »

deogeo wrote: post #155
danharaj wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize civilization is older than 120 years right?

So your thesis is ~100 years ago was some freak historical period when countries were mostly homogeneous (compared to current day. Please don't cite e.g. Czechs and Slovaks living in the same country as diversity comparable to current day), but throughout the rest of history, diversity was much greater. Do you have sources to back this up? And how did those countries become homogeneous, then?

How do you think all those European Americans got there?

And, modern nation states are very new. For example, France drove to extinction or near extinction all languages besides French spoken in what is now present day France through government policy. Like the language of Bretagne.

Your profound misunderstanding of history is not something I can rectify with citations. Read a book? Like, a scholarly book.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#167

Post by chillwaves »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

That explanation would be more credible if Jefferson did not impregnate one of his slaves.

Hypocrisy of deed is not covered up by some fig leaf of convenient belief systems.

Wikipedia says he fathered 6 children with her. Do you honestly believe that he thought dark complexion was some seriously different subhuman race?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#168

Post by chillwaves »

gdhbcc wrote: post #102
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

Probably in much the same way people today cry out about freedom of speech in china, while labeling restrictions on speech at home as acceptable (or not even restrictions at all!) At the end of the day all of these high minded ideals are just excuses to justify ones own actions and world views.

Which restrictions do you mean? There are very few instances of speech regulated by the government. Mostly threats and incitement of violence.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#169

Post by chillwaves »

kingkawn wrote: post #113
altcognito wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations deciding not to carry your message to a large audience and the government sending you to a political gulag do not seem comparable.

That seeming difference in methodologies of disenfranchisement is where empires are made and broken

Do I have a right to go on CNN primetime and rant?

Does CNN have a right to choose who can use their broadcast platform?

Is freedom of association allowed?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#170

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

chillwaves wrote: post #167
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. Isn't it pretty clear and straight-forward? It was based on the beliefs (regardless of the degree to which you might think from your perspective that those beliefs accurately represent reality or not) that many people held back then that there are significant racial differences between slaves and people, and the same ru…

That explanation would be more credible if Jefferson did not impregnate one of his slaves. Hypocrisy of deed is not covered up by some fig leaf of convenient belief systems. Wikipedia says he fathered 6 children with her. Do you honestly believe that he thought dark complexion was some seriously different subhuman race?

Do you think horses don’t know that donkeys aren’t horses? And yet they can and do create mules. I imagine that’s how Jefferson felt; after all, there is a derogatory term for mixed race people that begins with “mule”.
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