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A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

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Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#101

Post by deogeo »

aazaa wrote: post #81

The article links to the original source: https://freedomonthemove.org Scrolling down, one sees an ad from none other than Thomas Jefferson: > In Alberale, a Mulatto slave called Sandy, about 35 years of age, his stature is rather low, including to corpulence, and his complexion light; he is a shoemaker by trade, in which he uses his left hand principally, and is something of a horse jockey; ... Whoever conveys the s…

> It's striking to consider the self-delusion that must have been necessary for people at the time to believe in such wildly inconsistent notions as "inalienable rights" and slavery.

Perhaps they simply viewed one as the goal to strive towards, and the other as the current, unfortunate state of reality. Especially given that they had a civil war not six decades after Jefferson's presidency, and paid a high price in their own blood to secure those rights.

Edit: By 'they', I meant people in general, not specifically Washington and Jefferson.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#102

Post by gdhbcc »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #85
aazaa wrote: post #81

The article links to the original source: https://freedomonthemove.org Scrolling down, one sees an ad from none other than Thomas Jefferson: > In Alberale, a Mulatto slave called Sandy, about 35 years of age, his stature is rather low, including to corpulence, and his complexion light; he is a shoemaker by trade, in which he uses his left hand principally, and is something of a horse jockey; ... Whoever conveys the s…

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

Probably in much the same way people today cry out about freedom of speech in china, while labeling restrictions on speech at home as acceptable (or not even restrictions at all!)

At the end of the day all of these high minded ideals are just excuses to justify ones own actions and world views.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#103

Post by weberc2 »

bdcravens wrote: post #100
weberc2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to keep this civil and perhaps learn something, but what is the specific objection with respect to complaints of detention? Do folks just want better detention conditions or are we advocating for giving citizenship to everyone who wants it? EDIT: Why the downvotes? I'm asking a genuine question. How did I manage to offend?

> Do folks just want better detention conditions or are we advocating for giving citizenship to everyone who wants it? False dichotomy.

That’s not a dichotomy. It’s not an exhaustive list.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#104

Post by deogeo »

danharaj wrote: post #87
jtx22 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future. Future generations will look back at this borderless craze.. as truly insane.

Strict immigration control is a relatively modern phenomenon, and you should reevaluate your viewpoint if you find it so easy to justify putting children in cages. Scratch that, justify other people putting children in cages. Most people who support these policies wouldn't have the stomach to do the dirty work themselves.

The present state of migration is also a modern phenomenon - otherwise, countries wouldn't be trending from more towards less homogeneous, but would already be in a 'steady state'.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#105

Post by jordanpg »

jtx22 wrote: post #68
jordanpg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we put other humans in cages for any reason is probably unforgivable on a long enough timeline, especially for non-violent crimes.

Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future. Future generations will look back at this borderless craze.. as truly insane.

Maybe "the sovereignty of your country" is an obsolete concept that we inherited from the Middle Ages that should go away.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#106

Post by altcognito »

gdhbcc wrote: post #102
Ididntdothis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jefferson’s and Washington’s psychology was certainly very interesting as far as their attitudes towards freedom and slavery went. I wonder how they justified to themselves having slaves while talking about freedom and liberty. But we do the same today. A lot of us have pretty unsustainable lifestyles as far as the environment goes but we make ourselves feel good (or even superior to others) by adding a little bit of…

Probably in much the same way people today cry out about freedom of speech in china, while labeling restrictions on speech at home as acceptable (or not even restrictions at all!) At the end of the day all of these high minded ideals are just excuses to justify ones own actions and world views.

Corporations deciding not to carry your message to a large audience and the government sending you to a political gulag do not seem comparable.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#107

Post by scarmig »

jordanpg wrote: post #105
jtx22 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future. Future generations will look back at this borderless craze.. as truly insane.

Maybe "the sovereignty of your country" is an obsolete concept that we inherited from the Middle Ages that should go away.

The Middle Ages didn't have anything like borders in our contemporary sense. It's a modern invention that only came into full form in the 20th century.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#108

Post by drocer88 »

sfkdjf9j3j wrote: post #93
tasogare wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget to say these kids didn’t magically lend in jail. They were brought there by their parents that purposely broke immigration laws. They possibly even did it with the idea of appealing to emotion of US citizens to get away with it.

They aren't breaking immigration laws as they are asylum seekers.

They are economic migrants, otherwise they'd apply for "asylum" with Mexico.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#109

Post by Ididntdothis »

deogeo wrote: post #101
aazaa wrote: post #81

The article links to the original source: https://freedomonthemove.org Scrolling down, one sees an ad from none other than Thomas Jefferson: > In Alberale, a Mulatto slave called Sandy, about 35 years of age, his stature is rather low, including to corpulence, and his complexion light; he is a shoemaker by trade, in which he uses his left hand principally, and is something of a horse jockey; ... Whoever conveys the s…

> It's striking to consider the self-delusion that must have been necessary for people at the time to believe in such wildly inconsistent notions as "inalienable rights" and slavery. Perhaps they simply viewed one as the goal to strive towards, and the other as the current, unfortunate state of reality. Especially given that they had a civil war not six decades after Jefferson's presidency, and paid a high price in t…

You can’t let them get away that easily. Jefferson and Washington could have freed their own slaves at any time but chose not to.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#110

Post by bdcravens »

weberc2 wrote: post #103
bdcravens wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do folks just want better detention conditions or are we advocating for giving citizenship to everyone who wants it? False dichotomy.

That’s not a dichotomy. It’s not an exhaustive list.

Exactly. It's presented as an exhaustive list, making it a false dichotomy:

"A situation in which two alternative points of view are presented as the only options, when others are available."

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/false_dichotomy

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