I have to imagine soon, given that we are about to pass the third, impassable deadline for saving the world from climate change (2020).
When will the Netherlands disappear?
21–30 of 186 posts
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#22[deleted]
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#23I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane.
Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demise.
Meanwhile, since NL has failed significantly to meet EU (nitrogen) emissions requirements - almost entirely because of mass agriculture - there's a freeze on building housing, roads, etc. Oh and the country-wide max speed limit will be limited down to 100kph starting Jan 1 (which I don't mind so terribly, but many people do mind).
So basically, the commercial farmers are ruining this country (and contributing to ruining the planet), and being jerks while doing so.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#24Netherlands has been dealing with flooding even before the US existed. I think they will be fine.
From the perspective of an American living in the Netherlands for several years now... The Dutch are light years ahead in their Water management from the US, and far ahead of any other developed nation. The Dutch have a separate tax for Water to ensure money is there to prioritize this need, the citizens/children are all educated on the importance of water management (i.e. Indoctrination from young so EVERY citizen k…
> The Dutch have a separate tax for Water to ensure money is there to prioritize this need
Also, the local government bodies that runs this (the 'waterschappen') form one of the oldest democratic systems in the world.
> In short, they will be fine. This is a core part of their culture, investment, and priority.
It's also one of the things there isn't ever any real political discussion about, it just never comes up. No one will ever suggest cutting the budget for this. It's just something we all agree needs to be done so we just do it.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure the "water shapers" are optimistic given their success thus far. They have done quite well overall. But catastrophic failures tend to be combinations of events, events which individually could be handled.
That is pure speculation.
Humans have quite a history of trying to keep the sea out of their land, and that history has plenty of big failures. It all goes well until it doesn't, and then it's a big deal.
It doesn't require speculation to recognize this pattern, even if we can't predict the failure events accurately.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#26I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
This is a very one-sided view of the nitrogen problem.
It would be fair to point out the allowed nitrogen levels are orders of a magnitude smaller than in for example Germany, which is the result of a political decision to assign many many Natura2000 areas.
edit: and to add to this, there is plenty of support for the farmers, and their activism in The Netherlands.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#273 out of the top 5 dredging firms are from the Netherlands and one is from Belgium, right next door. The Netherlands will be fine. Actually the Netherlands will make bank selling water management knowledge to others.
Could be, but would it be fair to only keep your feet dry because you/your country can pay for it?
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is pure speculation.
Humans have quite a history of trying to keep the sea out of their land, and that history has plenty of big failures. It all goes well until it doesn't, and then it's a big deal. It doesn't require speculation to recognize this pattern, even if we can't predict the failure events accurately.
Do you have any specific examples of this ? ( I know of the 1953 flood, a combination of high tide and storm ).
But if there is plenty, I really would want to know.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn’t given back to the sea because they were tired of having all that extra farmland. They are strategically giving up on some parts to preserve others.
Then they should say so in the article. All it says is "The Noordwaard polder was one of 39 such areas selected for the Dutch government’s “Room for the River” program, in which land was given back to the water." Shame on the Dutch government for the euphemism, too, I guess. Afaik it is nothing new that the sea claims land that was previously settled on. The destruction of Rungholt in the 14th century is a famous exa…
The point is that it is an example of an issue that is going to become much more pressing. Considering a 14th. century event without regard to what has changed since then (technically, economically and environmentally) is not very informative.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#30Am I the only one who gets angry at stupid "mood setting" in such articles? It leads with the picture of an abandoned settlement that has turned to marshland, only to reveal that it was deliberately given over to the sea. Why should I read on after they wasted my time with that imagery? As for Netherlands being flooded, I suppose that threat has existed since the early day of its existence.
Perhaps because we can't yet take pictures of the future, fitting analogues from the present might be used to depict the possible future conditions described in the article?