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How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

blog.readyforzero.com

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Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#111
post #103
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was 25K in credit card debt when I got out of school. I moved back in with my parents and pretty much didn't do anything outside of working and sleeping for a year, and paid it off I am still debt free (this was 5 years ago). It takes self control and discipline, which most people don't have.

It's easy to be judgmental. What would you have done if you didn't have parents to mooch off of for a year? What if you had a family to support? It's easy to tell yourself you succeeded all due to "self control" and "discipline". But the truth is like many judgmental types, you had considerable practical/emotional support as well.

ViolentAcres actually had a good post about this a couple years ago:

http://www.violentacres.com/archives/32/drastic-measures/

Part of the problem is that when you're in debt, you get stressed, and when you're stressed, you tend to get tunnel vision and not see all of the possible alternatives. But the alternatives are out there. There are immigrant families that come here with nothing, sleep on sacks of rice in the back room of their workplace. There's the approach in the story above of going homeless and showering in the gym. There's roommates. You can live out of your car, if you have one.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#112
post #97
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So, they overextended themselves and THEN lost a job or had a medical emergency. The problem is people choose to live on the edge financially, which I think is irresponsible, especially if you have others who depend on you for their life." This is exactly true. Someone above mentioned that people buy houses, to get into a good school district. Why can't we allow people in bad school districts to go to another school…

Times your "probably less than 5%" by twelve and you're closer to the truth: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical...

Here is more information about it:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/02/a-little...

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know how bad schools can be. >Certainly in my childhood and young adult life there were a number of factors to my success or lack of it that had nothing to do with which school I attended. But would those factors be the same at a different school? I'm going to commit a minor sin and say a statistic without a citation; the average ACT score among teachers in Chicago was 19 a few years back. You say you went…

Is the debate here about poverty or is it about debt? Money is just the messenger in the economy - it transmits information to you about what roles might or might not be valuable, and from you as to what goods and services you would like to consume. It's not hard to stay out of debt - you simply have to heed the message that money is transmitting to you. Poverty is a wider question, and includes whether or not it is…

It is about both. Debt means plunging closer towards poverty. Escaping from poverty means being careful about debt.

The debate is actually about what informational tools people have available to them. This is demonstrated by your statement:

>It's not hard to stay out of debt - you simply have to heed the message that money is transmitting to you.

which is equivalently "It's not hard to stay out of debt if you're equipped with the attitudes that let you stay out of debt" which is tautological and therefore a non-statement. My point is that poverty _means_ being less likely to understand money.

My point is _not_ accurately summed up by "But one shouldn't have to forgo an education to avoid going into debt." I make no assertion about what a person _should_ do because that doesn't have anything to do with what they actually will do. I would prefer the phrasing "People _will_ choose a risk of debt in order to have their kids better educated" as that more accurately captures the situation. Not all of the people who put it all on the line to live in a better neighborhood ended up in debt. Some of them got lucky and did not have medical emergencies--for them, the risk paid off.

So your statement about whether or not schools are "overwhelmingly important" is true but irrelevant. Schools aren't overwhelmingly important, but they _are_ important. They improve the odds of success. Your personal success in a shit-hole school does not speak to the average of that school nor does it comment on whether or not it is sensible for a parent to risk additional debt for a better school.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that story, the "irresponsible" part is that they took a gamble in order for their kids to grow up in a better neighborhood, and lost. Sounds like a somewhat calculated risk rather than irresonsibility to me. also everything people have said about your position of privilege

If it's a calculated risk, why is this a problem that needs a YC startup to fix, rather than simply a risk that didn't work out? There're certainly people that take on debt as a calculated risk because they believe it'll pay off in the future. My parents did that to send me to college, and it did pay off. But when it fails, they usually just go "Well, shit," and fall back on their contingency plans for how to handle…

you're making the definition of calculated risk much more technical than it needs to be.

I ain't saying they did a formal cost-benefit analysis of the whole thing.

You seem to think that people can or ought to have an answer for every situation, should be prepared for every contingency; that there is a perfect understanding that one can just _follow_ and have everything turn out alright. That's great if it's how you can live your life, but 1) one day I bet you'll find that your preparation and contingencies were just an illusion, that luck has had its way with you--I mean, haven't you ever wondered what would have happened to you if your dad just died when you were 12? _That happens to people who were just like you_; and 2) most people don't have that and have to make choices without knowing what's behind the next door.

It's a YC startup because even if a person was willing to accept the cost of the contingency labeled "risk that didn't work out," there's still a valuable service in saying, surprise!, you will pay less for taking that risk by using our shiny software!

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know how bad schools can be. >Certainly in my childhood and young adult life there were a number of factors to my success or lack of it that had nothing to do with which school I attended. But would those factors be the same at a different school? I'm going to commit a minor sin and say a statistic without a citation; the average ACT score among teachers in Chicago was 19 a few years back. You say you went…

Is the debate here about poverty or is it about debt? Money is just the messenger in the economy - it transmits information to you about what roles might or might not be valuable, and from you as to what goods and services you would like to consume. It's not hard to stay out of debt - you simply have to heed the message that money is transmitting to you. Poverty is a wider question, and includes whether or not it is…

It's not hard to stay out of debt

That may be true in your situation, but when you have long-term obligations like a mortgage and kids in school, you're a bit less agile in your ability to respond to changing economic situations. If what you're suggesting is simply to not take on any long-term obligations that you don't absolutely know you can afford, that's a bit naive I think. For most people, being unable to work for a year will mean you either liquidate your life or you go into debt. Most people may not end up there, but according to your statement, everyone should live like they would.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that story, the "irresponsible" part is that they took a gamble in order for their kids to grow up in a better neighborhood, and lost. Sounds like a somewhat calculated risk rather than irresonsibility to me. also everything people have said about your position of privilege

If it's a calculated risk, why is this a problem that needs a YC startup to fix, rather than simply a risk that didn't work out? There're certainly people that take on debt as a calculated risk because they believe it'll pay off in the future. My parents did that to send me to college, and it did pay off. But when it fails, they usually just go "Well, shit," and fall back on their contingency plans for how to handle…

You're taking a calculated risk every time you get in your car, right? So, what's your backup plan in case someone T-bones you and you end up a paraplegic? You have one, I assume.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#117
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you're up there with those who think that people who owe large sums of money should "just work harder" or "lay off alcohol and cigs". I had a medical injury that has royally screwed up my life. I also HAD insurance, but starbucks switched insurance and I was now in preexisting condition hell. I had no money for a lawsuit, so I'm now 12k in the hole, along with basic living expenses that I had to cover while…

'I'm sure you're up there with those who think that people who owe large sums of money should "just work harder" or "lay off alcohol and cigs".' You say I'm "up there" like I'm some sort of snooty asshole for working my face off for six months to pay off my debt. I have my vices (I love you, Mary Jane) and I still managed to afford them so make whatever assumptions you will about me, I just found it more gratifying t…

I could post a heck of a lot more about my life, but I dont need the pity.

I was laid off, and am receiving unemployment. I hate that, cause I do like working. I do have funds guaranteed to go back to school in the fall due to my injury. I do some IT consulting on the side, but business has been slow recently. Also unemployment is 11% in my area, with a glut of HS and university students chewing up what little this area offers.

I put out about 10-20 resumes a day to a 50 mile radius, and have only had back 4 legit replies, with 30 spammy-fake offers of selling insurance and other affiliate scams.

I will have garnishment applied to me, due to flat out not being able to pay when I do get a job. Fortunately, garnishment does not apply to unemployment in IN, only passed last July.

I am now applying as a volunteer to the local United Way to get more experience and as valuable sources for my resume.

So, yes. I am making something of it. But the situation sucks.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#118
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elizabeth Warren said that in their bankruptcy study, the vast majority of people who filed for bankruptcy didn't do it because they "bought things they didn't need". They did it because they overextended themselves to get a house in a good school district and then one of them lost their job or they had a medical emergency. It's easy to paint those people as irresponsible, but according to her, it's very far from the…

I remember a study on general aviation plane crashes. They found that very few plane crashes came about because the pilot made a single, obvious mistake. Instead, the common pattern was a series of missteps, each so small that you couldn't properly call it a "mistake" in and of itself, the pilot was just cutting corners on the recommended safety margin. And then something happened that was out of the pilot's control,…

Health insurance makes a sudden medical emergency not quite so scary.

Until the insurer refuses to pay, and the "insured" lacks the resources to pursue a lawsuit. Maybe I'm the only one who's ever had that happen, but I rather doubt it. Reading further down, looks like someone else here has been through it too.

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#119
Hi,

I don't have much CC debt right now, at all. What I do have is Student Debt, and bags of it.

I've rummaged through the relevant federal repayment and waiver options, and I don't see any efficient ways for a software engineer to deal with the debt except "push as much money at it as fast as possible". Loan management options seem to extend debt payments out to about 30-40 years, which generates some eye-hurtingly huge interest payments over time. (think 1.5x the original loan amount).

One of the nasty little twists in federal student loans is that bankruptcy won't affect them. They do have various deferment plans, but those can keep the interest ticking along, which can be harsh if loans are large.

So: my question is: does readyforzero.com have any plans to work on student loan debt in the future?

Re: How Americans Get Out of Credit Card Debt

#120
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to move, and live with roommates, it's fairly easy to live comfortably (assuming no children) on 12k/year total. Assuming you're making minimum wage-ish, that's 8k to put in the bank every year.

yeah, what? that's a lot of assumptions. people don't live with assumptions, they live with the realities of having a kid or a spouse or a family or even a girl they just can't get over.

I was responding to a post about 'holding back 6 months salary' as a safety measure, with a simple example of how to do so. Obviously, this is something to do before you go and start a family. My point was not that it's possible for everyone, but rather that it's not as unthinkably hard to do as one might think, even on minimum wage.
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