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India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

independent.co.uk

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Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#121

Post by sbmthakur »

smt1 wrote: post #107
sbmthakur wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahmadis and Shias are victims of sectarian conflict. CAA only covers religious persecution. By your reasoning, CAB should've also covered LGBTQ, atheists, disabled and those sufferering political persecution. But it's not possible to accommodate everyone and every form of persecution in one bill.

Sectarian conflict isn't religious persecution? Most of the other religious minorities, just like Ahmadis and some Shia groups are persecuted via the same Pakistan's blasphemy laws.

Yes, it's not same and is something akin to India's caste discrimination. Besides, it complicates things. Tomorrow, what if the Pakistani state declares Wahabis and Salafists as non-Islamic? Do we pass an amendment to accommodate them too?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#123

Post by quantummkv »

goombastic wrote: post #117
nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

[flagged]

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would.

But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#124

Post by vinni2 »

nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

The problem is many have been living for generations without any documentation. How are they supposed to prove?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#125

Post by smt1 »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #115
yumraj wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think Ahmadis, who Pakistan doesn't consider Muslims, should be given refuge in India. If Pakistanis persecute Ahmadis, who are Muslims, we from outside cannot even imagine the day to day life of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists and others in Pakistan.

In Tudor England, there were times when Protestants / Catholics were persecuted more than, say, Jews. I know very little about contemporary politics, but that conclusion doesn't necessarily follow.

Yup. Historically, because of a long tradition of practices such as jizya, historically (now it varies from country to country) there tended to be much more tolerance of "lateral" religions such as Christianity and Judaism in muslim lands than other sects of Islam, which were considered dangerous heresys. South Asia was kind of unique because there was often muslim sultanate leaders over very large non-muslim populations, and that forced a sort of realpolitik tolerance.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#126

Post by pintxo »

quantummkv wrote: post #123
goombastic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would. But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Optimism does not mix well with detention camps.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#127

Post by hindsightbias »

_bxg1 wrote: post #52

Man. What is it with this wave of nationalistic zealotry that seems to be sweeping most of the world? Has it just been long enough since World War 2 that it's already time to re-learn these lessons?

We won the Cold War. Now everyone doesn’t have to pick a side for survival. Plenty of spare time for navel gazing and wondering who is keeping you down.

While the arrow of progress is forward, the blips can last for a millenia.

Unknown how long the War of Capitalisms will be.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#128

Post by goombastic »

quantummkv wrote: post #123
goombastic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would. But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Maybe revolting withing detention camps isn't a good idea?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#129

Post by mlnj »

quantummkv wrote: post #123
goombastic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would. But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Because the past actions have left us with no faith in its abilities to act responsibly. In November 2016 the government just woke up one night and declared the highest denominations of Indian currency as illegal tender (not just not legal, but possession of it beyond a set date would be treated with jail time). This was apparently to curb black money. Everyone knew that black money was almost never stored in cash, but in land and real estate. Tonnes of evidence then came up how BJP candidates themselves distributed boxes full of newly monetized notes to the ones they favor. This was during a time when the common man stood in queues at cash points to withdraw their own money only to be rationed a fraction of it due to distribution problems with the newly minted notes.

The effects of this gimmick was the obliteration of the small sector economy throughout the country and is now the backbone of financial crunch the country is facing. Also it completely failed to nail the black money problem it was proposed to solve. Widespread corruption and the BJP candidates themselves made sure that their rich friends cleaned up the money (I got all kinds of acquaintances who did).

We do not live just in the present. My optimism with the current government has eroded by their actions in the past. When such laws alienate an entire community of people by their religion (or skin color or economic status) and we are talking about holding them in detention camps, do we keep calm and let the atrocities begin to unfold or do we protest?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#130

Post by mlnj »

goombastic wrote: post #128
quantummkv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a straight up Nazi policy. Can't we have a good faith approach and see. It what you are saying does happens then we can revolt. And we would. But would it bad to if only the good happens? What's wrong with a bit of optimism?

Maybe revolting withing detention camps isn't a good idea?

By that point the protesters are already labelled as illegal and demonized by everyone else.
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