Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize • Hacker News Board

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#81

Post by gautamdivgi » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #40

Maxion wrote: post #20

Did no one read the article? > Spiers, 21, said she went through the standard approval process, which requires two co-workers to greenlight changes, before updating the Chrome browser extension. Another source at Google familiar with the update approval process confirmed to NBC news that those two approvals are standard practice for a browser extension update. She did it exactly according to internal policy. The exte…

That sounds like a code review, which is not the same as project/management approval for the 'feature' at all.

Not sure why you're downvoted. This does sound like a code review. News sites most often either willfully or through ignorance prefer not to investigate the entire story to truly get to what broke or what didn't break. It's typically just for shock value. I remember a story where cell tower signals were blamed for decline in the North American honey bee population.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#82

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #64

CodeMage wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read what the extension is for?

It feels like a lot of astro-turfing going on here. Why would any sane person be against unions?

> Why would any sane person be against unions?

I have no horse in this race. But as a counterpoint, pretty much everything in New York is more expensive due to heavy unionisation, particularly around construction and public services.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#83

Post by krageon » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #44

Maxion wrote: post #20

Did no one read the article? > Spiers, 21, said she went through the standard approval process, which requires two co-workers to greenlight changes, before updating the Chrome browser extension. Another source at Google familiar with the update approval process confirmed to NBC news that those two approvals are standard practice for a browser extension update. She did it exactly according to internal policy. The exte…

I doubt thats the spirit of the rule. I would no more want that injected into my browser than any other political message.

This isn't political. It's about unionising.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#84

Post by FussyZeus » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #27

iwantagrinder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

I'm honestly a little surprised (and worried) about all the commenters who argue Google is in the right here.

All these 10x developers terrified they'd have to make a reasonable wage like the rest of us serfs.

*By the way, that's very much sarcasm since a well organized union doesn't need to cap wages at any level. It's just the argument that keeps getting put forward and I get sick of it.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#85

Post by PunchTornado » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

iwantagrinder wrote: post #25

Touche wrote: post #13

The article is confusing. She says she was fired for doing one thing. Google says she did something else (modified Chromium without permission). Does she deny their claims, or is her statement just spin? Given just her quotes you would think that she was fired for literally telling coworkers that they have a right to organize.

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

Do you understand that you can follow the process by the book and still do something wrong and be rightfully fired? "The book" doesn't contain everything that an employee shouldn't or should do.

Sending political messages thorugh a browser extension to other employees seems like a reason for being fired no matter how many reviews you've got.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#86

Post by Touche » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

ninly wrote: post #31

cj wrote: post #5

> Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” So basically, the Go…

Certainly bold and perhaps ill-advised, but I would hardly characterize this as "injection" > Spiers told NBC News that she was inspired to create a digital notification because “a poster in the cafeteria is not the best way of reaching the majority of Googlers.” > The message included a link to a statement that the NLRB required the company to post for employees following the settlement of a complaint that was filed…

Prefixing this by saying I am not siding with Google (since people make assumptions). The standard approval process sounds like most merge review processes on any engineering team. There's a sort of assumed good-faith for this process. The fact that 2 coworkers were fine with your change doesn't mean it was made in good-faith and was within the bounds of normal types of changes.

Any engineer with the freedom to make changes without manager approval knows that adding features or making major changes isn't not the sort of thing you just do on your own. You'd go through another process for that.

So I don't buy this argument at all. This was a knowing violation. That does not, however, mean that they punishment was warranted, I don't think that it was.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#87

Post by CPLX » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #73

skywhopper wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the question is, would they react this way if the injected content was something else?

So.... this is interesting. The answer is if they are strict authoritarians and go by the book, yes. There is no leeway. If they are flexible and are open to interpretation and intent then no... but then that leaves them open to risk. Because of that most companies over time become very strict and unforgiving.

The trope that says "asking for rules to be enforced in a sane and human manner leads to authoritarianism" is a pretty recognizable form of bullshit.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#88

Post by SolaceQuantum » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #56

Maxion wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly a little surprised (and worried) about all the commenters who argue Google is in the right here.

Of course Google is right. She happened to get two coworkers to approve what she was doing. If I got a manager who I was friends with to approve my purchase of a fully decked out $53K Mac Pro so I could finally use Slack at a decent speed when I am working from home, wouldn’t you think there was something fishy?

I think then the responsibility is on the manager?

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#89

Post by downdown4eva » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #64

CodeMage wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read what the extension is for?

It feels like a lot of astro-turfing going on here. Why would any sane person be against unions?

No, it feels like wilful cognitive dissonance where you all seem to think having two coworkers of no real managerial importance signing off on your company-wide political statement is somehow 'by the book' and everyone else is just a shill, ignorant and somehow didn't read this press release for this poor, poor person who knew exactly what would happen.

EDIT: Let's read the second paragraph of the article again:

"each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company"

You see that phrase 'labor activism'? This is the exact cognitive dissonance I am describing here. You want to pretend activism isn't political, that an employee planting a message on the website of a company affiliated with their employer related to this political subject is totally innocent and not a politically charged message. Just 'totally telling you your rights' and nothing more than that. That's intellectually dishonest.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#90

Post by someonehere » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

Does anyone have the code approval process?

The chrome extension was modified but approved by two other people? Were these two other people on her side?

Regardless of policy or no policy, having an internal tool modified to say, “we have the right to organize,” clearly sets off some trust concerns with me.

If this extension was approved by two people who were on her side, then those two need to be removed as well and there should be a rethinking of the approval process.