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Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

wsj.com

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Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#111

Post by inferiorhuman »

starfallg wrote: post #96
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lawsuits that are surely incoming are going to pile-drive this company into the ground Legally, everyone is indemnified up the wazoo. Strategically, airlines are in a worse position if Boeing goes under. Not only do they lose the planes on order. They also lose their service and replacement-parts provider. The survivors would, in the medium-term, face an Airbus monopoly and, in the long-term, a Chinese-European duo…

> Chinese-European duopoly Unlikely. The Chinese is currently competing with Embraer (E-Jet E2) and Bombardier (C-series/A22x) with the Comac C919 which has problems with production. Since its first flight in 2017, there has only been 5 built. Tech transfers has also slowed to trickle since the HSR fiasco with foreign rail technology absorbed and then re-exported. Nobody trusts the Chinese to play fair. What's more l…

The Chinese is currently competing with Embraer (E-Jet E2) and Bombardier (C-series/A22x)

AKA Boeing and Airbus.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#112

Post by GhettoMaestro »

munk-a wrote: post #83
room271 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the airlines know that Boeing will never go under because the US government would (justifiably) never let that happen for strategic reasons.

Boeing has burned a lot of political and public capital recently so they may actually be in hot water over this. As a Canadian I'm still pretty outraged over the stupidity that the US carried out at Bombardier - Boeing basically told the US Government "Hey, those Canadians are better than us at everything" and then the US Government said "Oh, poor baby, well we'll just help the free market out with a 300% tariff." Th…

Cool story, bro. Except that isn’t really the market reality.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#113

Post by natch »

Aloha wrote: post #107
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the name is toxic. But I don't think it will work, because it takes time to engineer such a modification, and more time to get FAA approval.

The software fix is complete, and the name is already been replaced, its now the 737-8200.

Same hardware? Same team? Same CEO? “Fix” you say? We shall see.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#114

Post by markus_zhang »

hinkley wrote: post #87
markus_zhang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing is one of the pillars of the American economy and the market as well. Dumping the stock will hurt pretty much every fund that invested on it, plus Dow will plunge just because of this one stock if it's getting dumped. Boeing, as well as many other firms, are just too big to fail suddenly.

There was a really weird moment for me about ten years ago when I realized Apple could pay cash to buy Boeing. I mean, obviously they wouldn't, but something is off about the scale of it all. Are we sure it's a pillar? Perhaps if you take all of the suppliers and partners it represents, sure. But by itself, I don't think it really look all that impressive. After The War, the US government was careful to keep domestic…

Yeah including all those peripheral dmg if it falls suddenly. I'm mean might be able to afford I'd it declines overtime, but a shock is going be very scary.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#115

Post by jonknee »

metafizikal wrote: post #25

why continue to make the planes when you have no idea when you can actually push them out the door? given that they continued to produce the MAX while they were grounded, they must be running out of storage space...

Because they have a huge backlog of orders to fulfill when it does get re-approved and it's very expensive to shut down and idle the production process (besides Boeing themselves there are 100s of suppliers)?

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#116

Post by CharlesColeman »

snuxoll wrote: post #60
CharlesColeman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ban the aircraft. Criminally charge everyone involved in suppressing it's serious issues and forcing it through approval. That's going a bit too far. Banning MCAS and requiring pilots to undergo MAX-specific training and certification seems more reasonable (and less wasteful) response to the issues. I would support criminal charges against the chief decision-makers that led Boeing into this mess, going all the way…

The 737 Max is doomed without the MCAS, the entire reason it exists is to keep the same type rating the same to keep pilots from needing to re-certify. Airlines will have serious reason to consider other manufacturers if they can’t just throw pilots behind the stick with minimal training.

> The 737 Max is doomed without the MCAS, the entire reason it exists is to keep the same type rating the same to keep pilots from needing to re-certify.

That's what Boeing wanted, but that doesn't mean they should get it.

Anyway, I think "doomed" is overstating it. I would assume whatever training an existing 737 pilot would need to fly and MCAS-less MAX would be far less that what they would need to fly an Airbus.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#117

Post by caf »

nemetroid wrote: post #68
mark-r wrote: post #3

The big question is why they haven't done it already? Boeing's disconnect from reality is painful to watch.

I would assume that the reason they're shutting down is that they've run out of (feasible) places to park them. As other commenters have mentioned, the order backlog is still long, so as long as you can easily store the planes, it makes sense to keep building them.

From what I have read they would have no problem storing an almost unlimited number of them in one of the desert aircraft storage areas.

It's really that while production operates without deliveries, it's a machine that turns cash into airplanes. Sooner or later, even Boeing is going to run a little low on cash.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#118

Post by salex89 »

Medicalidiot wrote: post #9

I'm really wondering how much this will impact Boeing in the future and what their plans are for the 737 Max replacement.

It probably impacted already. The Boeing NMA is basically nowhere to be seen, the 777X deadlines are slowly being broken, and that should be the future of Boeing. For now, Boeing is dealing with the past, basically, corpses falling out of the closet. Not to mention the 787 engine issues.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#119

Post by CharlesColeman »

allovernow wrote: post #90
wayoutthere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lawsuits that are surely incoming are going to pile-drive this company into the ground. Boeing is one of the most heavily subsidized companies in the world -- right alongside Airbus. They are a strategic asset to the United States far beyond their market value. The market knows this, hence why their stock is not being hammered.

Indeed. Though personally I feel perhaps Boeing should be left to fail, I'm considering going long if the stock slides further in the short term because I anticipate some form of bailout/buyout.

> Indeed. Though personally I feel perhaps Boeing should be left to fail, I'm considering going long if the stock slides further in the short term because I anticipate some form of bailout/buyout.

I don't want to see it wind down as a going concern, but I wouldn't mind a bankruptcy and seeing the executives and board of directors fired with their compensation clawed back.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#120

Post by rodgerd »

olefoo wrote: post #56
markus_zhang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing is one of the pillars of the American economy and the market as well. Dumping the stock will hurt pretty much every fund that invested on it, plus Dow will plunge just because of this one stock if it's getting dumped. Boeing, as well as many other firms, are just too big to fail suddenly.

> too big to fail suddenly Also known as "a systemic risk". This is the downside of allowing the concentration of economic power in too few hands. It's like other large scale systems. Yes there's a lot of redundancy; but that redundancy serves a purpose.

All the central planning of the old Soviet Union, with none of the pretense to public good.
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