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Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#171

Post by huntertwo »

x2f10 wrote: post #158
huntertwo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe it is a mixture of 1) American apathy to corporate behavior 2) Corporations being most willing to dedicate resources to lobbying in the US (compared to European countries) due to its corporate friendly legal and legislature systems and extremely powerful economy

3) Corporations donating to political campaigns often influencing the candidate's / party's messaging. Perhaps this is bundling in your #2, but it's powerful enough to individually call out.

Yeah, that was part of what I was trying to communicate. I think another political aspect is the corporate influence on political media that heavily influences the average voter's stance on many issues related to corporate governance. I.e. CNN/Fox/NBC etc. have vast and diverse corporate goals but also control much of the political discussion that influences voters. The fact that many media companies exist under the same conglomeration only exasperates this effect.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#172

Post by sounds »

viggity wrote: post #76
yobananaboy wrote: post #9

I'm shocked someone actually voted no. What would their justification for that vote be? Legit curious if they had a proper argument, didn't understand the issue, or if it was some type of corporate influence.

I like to play devil's advocate... Imagine this - a sprayer stops working for any reason. Farmer purchases a non-oem electronics replacement part, but that part used a counterfeit FTDI usb controller but it silently fails. Now, the signal to turn off the sprayer when it approaches a waterway, or a school doesn't happen like it should. Obviously, the replacement part maker should take all the blame. But do you think t…

Deere already disclaims all liability for the use of their equipment.

Farmers already know they are left standing alone if they have any sort of issue like the one you described. Without this crucial right to repair, the farmer would have to take the insane step of relying on John Deere to implicate John Deere in the case of a lawsuit.

John Deere Repairman: "Oh, no, Mr. Farmer, our equipment functioned flawlessly."

Farmer: "But it suddenly started spraying poison at the school, automatically."

John Deere Repairman: "My computer terminal shows that it received a direct command from Mr. Farmer. I rest my case."

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#173

Post by dang »

getpolarized wrote: post #107
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #100

Thinking of who wouldn't vote for right to repair I can only come up with: 1. leaders of companies that would be adversely affected by right to repair 2. perhaps employees of same companies but that seems iffy as I doubt the adverse effects would be so great as to threaten employment. 3. People who actually think that although it would be to their benefit to have a right to repair there is an encroachment on a compan…

The same reason millions of Americans voted for "trickle down" and other irrational economic decisions. They're overly manipulated by propaganda.

Please don't take HN on generic ideological tangents. They're repetitive and routinely become flamewars.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#174

Post by TeMPOraL »

greendude29 wrote: post #169
viklove wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting downvotes because it was posted in bad faith. Many Americans would say we give corporations the freedom to act how they wish, and we give individuals the freedom to do business with the corporations they choose. The argument to be had is how much the government needs to watch out for the citizenship, because every "protective" law they pass is a restriction on the aforementioned freedoms. The American sc…

> The argument to be had is how much the government needs to watch out for the citizenship, because every "protective" law they pass is a restriction on the aforementioned freedoms. This doesn't work. It might in a "history" book that is intentionally written to espouse pride and nationalism in your nation's ideals, but this is not the reality of human beings. The above __might__ work if all parties worked with good…

> They need to be governed, otherwise they will infect your government in order to produce a reality that is better for their existence.

Indeed. I feel people learn some things in school that are essentially "fixed points" of economics - like supply/demand balance - and internalize the view that markets are static. They're not. They're dynamic systems. They optimize their own environments. It's as you say - corporations (and businesses in general) will happily make the legal system change to favor them. It's what markets do. Anything that can make improve profits is sought - whether it's a better product, a better marketing lie, or a change in laws.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#175

Post by bri3d »

hathawsh wrote: post #85
trenning wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look to the automotive industry then. I owned a shop as a mechanic for several years working on euro cars mainly as well as a lot of track cars. The software in cars has gotten insanely advanced, and yet independent shops are still able to service cars because there's support from 3rd parties on diagnostic equipment from companies like Snap-on who make diagnostic equipment. Look at the auto enthusiast market for stan…

Is communication with the ECU encrypted in some cars? Will it be in the future? If that happens, it will become much harder to replace components with aftermarket devices.

Yes, communication is already encrypted or "protected" in almost all modern cars. New interfaces like FlexRay offer true cryptographic protection (albeit usually weak - things like AES with a universally shared key/IV across a whole model line are common), but even older systems have "protection" in the form of obfuscation, XOR and transformation based challenge-response algorithms (the one in VW cars runs a cute bytecode script against the challenge to yield the appropriate response), serial-number validation, and so on.

For example, most modern VW AG cars have all of their core modules protected by Component Protection, a system where the identities of the modules are synchronized together as a (somewhat successful, actually) anti-theft measure. If modules are "mixed and matched" (for example, a used head unit is installed in a different car), they don't function. Private shops can subscribe to a service to reprogram this protection (GeKo) at a cost of around $1000 USD/year.

By and large these systems are usually reverse engineered over time as the protection is usually not very good, but the overall ability to add additional hardware is, indeed, getting more challenging.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#176

Post by skinkestek »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #122
squish78 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree, but we're not yet to the point of massive famine and crop failures - although it seems closer year after year. Every farmer I talk to is worn out and tired of the bullshit.

I've often wondered if our government has some massive stores of grain somewhere to feed the nation for a few years in the event of a near total crop failure. Seems irresponsible not to have it. Update: I sometimes wonder what it would take for me to have a year of food in reserve here at home, but I worry that its just the crazy Prepper in me trying to come out.

> but I worry that its just the Prepper in me trying to come out.

Fixed it for you :-)

There's nothing crazy with a little prepping, is it? Many of the practices are even recommended around here (stock up on food with long shelf life, keep clean water around, some iodine, a battery powered radio etc)

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#177

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

kempbellt wrote: post #45
korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

I'm for right-to-repair, but I'll give it a shot in defense of manufacturers. A lot of people assume it's just "evil-corp" greed. All of these reasons are money based, but not necessarily malicious. Liability: If a customer repairs a machine improperly and it causes more problems, or someone gets hurt, it can paint the manufacturer in a bad light. Many farmers know how to operate a tractor safely, but might not know…

> Liability: If a customer repairs a machine improperly and it causes more problems, or someone gets hurt, it can paint the manufacturer in a bad light. Many farmers know how to operate a tractor safely, but might not know how to disassemble and repair one safely.

That is not a reason to make repairs illegal. Authoritarianism does not solve problems. If property means anything, then it certainly should include the right to use it "incorrectly", though obviously with liability for any damages you cause others.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#178

Post by acd »

This is definitely the right step to take. We have global warming of course we should repair things in order to utilize them longer. This will benefit the environment and also hopefully farmers and consumers.

Our grandparents stuff was made to last a lifetime we have something to relearn from that.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#179

Post by umvi »

aguyfromnb wrote: post #47
ISL wrote: post #14

Right to repair is increasingly hitting people outside of agrarian/industrial contexts. This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. I have a tablet that long-ago met the same fate. This is in the same world where I can 'apt-get update' my seven-year old desktop and work with ap…

> This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. The same thing happened recently with the Chromebook I purchased for my significant other. She's a very light computer user, so we thought it was a perfect device. It was great, until one day she received a message saying, essential…

That happened to my Chromebook too, so I just installed GalliumOS on it, and it's been getting updates regularly for over a year now.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#180

Post by larkost »

Balanceinfinity wrote: post #141
Crashbat wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the farmers know very well the lifecycle costs of their heavy machinery, the problem isn't ill-informed consumers. The problem is the time as well as expense of repairs is controlled by the manufacturers. The razor example isn't analogous here, you can pretty much plan for when you need new blades. A farmer can't predict when the equipment will break down.

Lifecycle costs of machinery are pretty standard (especially after whatever warranty expires). And, of course, the farmer can avoid the risks of these costs by simply extending the warranty - then all the risk is on the warranty provider. But the homework the farmer (or any purchaser - this same issue arises for medical imaging equipment, cars, busses, etc) should do is what will the service market looklike for his o…

My understanding is that it is not only cost that is problematic, but rather time. If you need to harvest, then you need to harvest now, not in 2 weeks. Whereas the dealer repair shops are not always available in those time frames. Especially not if you are in the field and have to unclog something, and then need a dealer-only code to re-enable the in-failure-mode part.
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