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Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#31

Post by probably_wrong »

korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

Not that I agree with them, but some of the rationales I heard:

That it makes a company liable in case someone repairs their truck and it blows up, since they can't prove that the two were related. Also to consider: the machine blows up after a repair, but it's not related to that.

That it might force companies to publish business secrets: with machine being full of computers nowadays, they might be forced to reveal a proprietary API. Related: someone finds a flaw in the API, uses it to ruin other people's machines, and then the company gets sued for it.

That it forces companies to sell pieces that are not profitable, in case someone wants to repair their machinery. They might have no intentions to get into the spare pieces market, but with a specific law (such as "the company will make available all required pieces for sale, or...") they might be forced to.

Also, money. But those are the kind of arguments you were asking for.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#33

Post by snowron6 »

eastof wrote: post #20
ISL wrote: post #14

Right to repair is increasingly hitting people outside of agrarian/industrial contexts. This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. I have a tablet that long-ago met the same fate. This is in the same world where I can 'apt-get update' my seven-year old desktop and work with ap…

You can get really good support from Lineage OS for years to come. Been running it on all my android devices for years. The flagship models like Pixel usually have the best ongoing support.

Really? There's been no support for the pixel since the first one. It sucks, I'd love to run lineage on my pixel 2.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#34

Post by sadfklsjlkjwt »

yobananaboy wrote: post #9

I'm shocked someone actually voted no. What would their justification for that vote be? Legit curious if they had a proper argument, didn't understand the issue, or if it was some type of corporate influence.

In any given vote some small percentage of people tick the wrong box by mistake.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#36

Post by dbcurtis »

korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

In the early days, farm tractors were pretty simple, and many farmers did a lot of their own work. As machines got bigger, most used local repair shops that could always order from parts depots. But as electronics has invaded tractors (for many good reasons) it has gotten to the point where you really need the diagnostic equipment.

So this is a lot like what auto repair was in the early days of the diagnostic plug-in port. It took legislation to allow my local mechanic to buy a diagnostic machine that allowed him to reset the whiney "time for an oil change" message when he serviced my car. That was all about lock-in. This is all about lock-in for farm machinery, using proprietary ports and protocols and keeping documentation secret.

I could go on at length with anecdotes from family history but I shall spare you.

Right-to-repair needs to happen for all of us. Farmers just happen to have a lot of money on the line here and are leading the charge.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#37

Post by tooMuchCensor »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #26
deogeo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it could be argued that the latter makes a bit more sense given that most of their customers, statistically speaking, are not necessarily tech enthusiasts And I'm not a car enthusiast, yet I can take my car to any mechanic I choose - I don't need the manufacturer's permission.

This actually is also a market that suffers from this, notably companies like Tesla.

Tesla and Apple. Both HN favorites....

Back in my day, FOSS everything or you are an evil programmer. It's strange to see this was only a trend and now some nerds prefer locked down systems.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#39

Post by phillc73 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #27
taurath wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money. You’re not buying a tractor, you’re buying a “platform”.

Well, he said “rational,” as in, how does Deere rationalize it. As far as I can tell, they’re just parroting the usual DMCA talking points… > John Deere declined to be interviewed but sent a lengthy statement outlining its concerns. The company doesn’t want people altering its copyright-protected code because, said director of public relations Ken Golden, “changes could lead to the unsafe operation of products, disru…

It's been many years since I was actively involved in agriculture, but I don't recall John Deere being a monopoly. There were choices including Ford, Case, Masse Ferguson, Kubota, New Holland and then regionally brands like MTZ and Steyr.

That's not to say they're not all participating in the same practices, I just don't know, but is Deere really a monopoly?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#40

Post by korabas »

probably_wrong wrote: post #31
korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

Not that I agree with them, but some of the rationales I heard: That it makes a company liable in case someone repairs their truck and it blows up, since they can't prove that the two were related. Also to consider: the machine blows up after a repair, but it's not related to that. That it might force companies to publish business secrets: with machine being full of computers nowadays, they might be forced to reveal…

These are at least logical arguments.

I am also not sure I agree with them, or rather with the way things turn out in practice. But, as they say, "a villain is a hero in the other side".

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