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JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

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Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#631

Post by coldtea »

coldtea wrote: post #189
keymone wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But java isn’t slow and sluggishness is definitely not only due to GC pauses. It’s all about input handling subsystem.

The sluggineshness you describe should definitely be mainly GC pauses. IDEA has done extra work on the "input handling subsystem" to the point where they are faster than most anything out there: See: https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2015/08/experimental-zero-la... And: https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2015/08/experimental-zero-la... (which is now standard)

Sorry, the first link was meant to be:

https://pavelfatin.com/typing-with-pleasure/

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#632

Post by anon73044 »

sharken wrote: post #624
Rapzid wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be on to something but their product philosophy just seems to be.. different. Compare TeamCity to Bamboo; it's in a different league. Maybe that does come down to the extra human resources they can throw at stuff. Their products are/were ambitious in an MVP environment.

Some TeamCity details are a bit odd, for example you are not allowed to run a development server and a production server with one license. Instead you should get an evaluation license, that is only valid two months at a time. Conditional build steps have been requested by users for years and even though it's the most requested feature, nothing has happened for years. But it's still way way ahead of the alternatives.

>But it's still way way ahead of the alternatives

Like Jenkins, Bamboo, TFS, VSTeam, TravisCI, CircleCI, GitLabCI, UrbanCode?

Maybe it's just me, but the CI/CD space is pretty crowded these days, and Jenkins is still #1 for a reason. I don't find myself fighting TeamCity as much these days but there's alot if things I wish it could do better.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#633

Post by hderms »

jtms wrote: post #618
jakobegger wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also switched from Tower when they introduced subscription pricing. My current git setup: - Git Fork for committing, pushing - P4 Merge for resolving conflicts (it's not a pretty app, but the fantastic feature set more than makes up for the non-native look) - GitUp for reordering, editing and splitting commits - Command line for the rare things the GUIs can't do None of those cost money and I don't understand how t…

The terminal is the best and only git client you need and it will always be free. You are doing yourself a disservice as a developer by not learning how to use your terminal

I'm not sure about that in the case of git. I used the terminal UI exclusively for a long time but it's so bizarrely designed that I've been interested in using a GUI for a while. There are a lot of reasons a dev should learn to use a terminal but making git more pleasant to use isn't necessarily one of them.

GUIs aren't super flexible but they are good at taking a common flow users go through and making it stupid simple to exercise. A lot of the usage of git should be stupid simple, with only infrequent need for complex interaction. Obviously there are some people out there for which a GUI will never be sufficient for their needs, but I'd argue it isn't the common case.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#634

Post by mmastrac »

mshafirov wrote: post #611
mmastrac wrote: post #254

Every time I see these guys pop up, I'm reminded of the time a decade ago where they literally copied my .NET profiler (nprof) into their "brand new" .NET profiling product at the time and just shipped it. No apologies, no compensation for building a commercial product on something I had spent a decent amount of time on. Very disappointing of them.

JetBrains CEO here At the time, we had a student working on the project and they used a couple of classes from NProf code for loading the profiler under IIS. This was done incorrectly as it was not in compliance with the GPL license. This was brought to our attention on March 18th 2005, and after careful examination we responded on March 21st 2005, following up by removing said code and rewriting it. We indicated thi…

Thanks for the (second) apology. It looks like some details got fuzzy over 15 years.

Apologies on my end for mis-remembering that I already received an apology from the VP of product development at the time.

That would be great - I no longer have the email in question as I lost access to that account and virtually all email records from the early 2000s (mmastrac@canada.com, I'm assuming). If you could forward that to matthew@mastracci.com I can have that for my records so I don't forget the details again.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#635

Post by viklove »

dmitriid wrote: post #374
savanaly wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So I move the cursor...What do you do in vim that is far easier? The part about moving the cursor. Vim users typically don't move the cursor with the mouse but rather with the keyboard. Having to move your hands off the keyboard to reach for the mouse then back is the part that starts to feel sluggish if you get used to not doing it.

Before a vim'er finishes typing yet another command to find that one specific text, a mouse user will have already clicked where needed :)

Quite the opposite actually, by the time your hand even finds the mouse the vim user will already have jumped to the desired code block and have started editing it.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#636

Post by sharken »

anon73044 wrote: post #632
sharken wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some TeamCity details are a bit odd, for example you are not allowed to run a development server and a production server with one license. Instead you should get an evaluation license, that is only valid two months at a time. Conditional build steps have been requested by users for years and even though it's the most requested feature, nothing has happened for years. But it's still way way ahead of the alternatives.

>But it's still way way ahead of the alternatives Like Jenkins, Bamboo, TFS, VSTeam, TravisCI, CircleCI, GitLabCI, UrbanCode? Maybe it's just me, but the CI/CD space is pretty crowded these days, and Jenkins is still #1 for a reason. I don't find myself fighting TeamCity as much these days but there's alot if things I wish it could do better.

In fairness I have only tried Jenkins, CruiseControl and Azure DevOps. What sets TeamCity apart is the use of Kotlin. You do have to invest a fair amount of time to get the most of it, but when you do the return is great.

Putting together a pipeline in Azure DevOps with tons of YAML is not a great experience.

As far as Jenkins is concerned I think that it's biggest selling point is that it's free.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#637

Post by chiefsucker »

cwojno wrote: post #583
philwelch wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Command-line git allows you to specify a mergetool, many of which are capable of three way merges.

The point was convenience. I don't have to leave the IDE.

For some people Unix is the IDE.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#638

Post by adar »

eftokay83 wrote: post #599
jakobegger wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also switched from Tower when they introduced subscription pricing. My current git setup: - Git Fork for committing, pushing - P4 Merge for resolving conflicts (it's not a pretty app, but the fantastic feature set more than makes up for the non-native look) - GitUp for reordering, editing and splitting commits - Command line for the rare things the GUIs can't do None of those cost money and I don't understand how t…

I'm a big Fork advocat and use it on a daily basis, but I fear they will charge for a new version at some point in the future. I think that because it seems they founded a company "Fork" which inevitable will need to make money eventually. edit: I'm of course willing to pay some bucks for great software if it's a fair pricing model.

Just yesterday I noticed a "Fork Activation" option in the Fork menu with fields for an email and a license key. I think you might be right, it won't be free for much longer.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#639

Post by dathanb82 »

aedron wrote: post #604
jillesvangurp wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched from Eclipse to Intellij only three years ago because it actually used to be pretty good but just fell behind too much. Gradle & Spring Boot were the reason I gave up on Eclipse. I just couldn't get a project imported correctly without running into a lot of bugs. So, when a new project came up I just switched over and started using Intellij. Before that, for doing vanilla maven + Java projects Eclipse was…

There are, despite the often very aggressive IntelliJ proponents, many areas where Eclipse beats IntelliJ, and incremental compilation is indeed one of the most important. It is also possibly the most important feature in a Java IDE. Ctrl+s and you know the whole codebase is compiled. Go to another file and any code change is available in the code completion (like new or changed methods signatures). Any errors from t…

When's the last time you checked out IntelliJ? It does incremental compilation these days, plus auto-save-and-compile whenever you switch tabs (not just when you save the current tab, which bit me many times in Eclipse; though I haven't used Eclipse in at least four years now), so code completion is immediately updated. I'm pretty sure this has been the case for a few years now.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#640

Post by gmiller123456 »

Lazare wrote: post #447
lol768 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But with a very customer-friendly clause of where if you pay for a subscription for 12 months you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product when you initially subscribed. And then after paying for any particular version of a product for 12 months, you also get a perpetual license for that particular version and so on and so forth This came about due to a decent amount of consumer backlash, if I r…

When you say it like that, it doesn't sound amazing, but you can also phrase it as: "JetBrains listened to their customers, took feedback on board, and made meaningful changes that addressed the concerns." In a perfect world, that would the minimum expected behaviour, but in the world we live in, it's kind of surprising when it happens.

"JetBrains listened to their customers..."

Yes, you can make something sound positive when you leave out material facts. They knew an expiring license would be much less popular than a non-expiring one before they did it. So, just saying they listened to their customers leaves out the very important detail that they ignored their customers the first time around.

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