Thanks to PG for writing this. I will never have kids and I don't want them (I'm old enough to know for certain). But I appreciated this essay. It's good to know what I am giving up.
Having Kids
581–590 of 902 posts
Re: Having Kids
#582Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours during the day and don't really know who you are As if 1-2 hours per day is "little"? That's not in any way why kids "don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up". Kids spent even less "quality time" with their parents (a relatively modern boomer invention) back in the old times when they did fully "listened to and respected" them.
Hmm... I thought the 9-5, office work, working for other people/businesses are the modern inventions and for tens of thousands of years mankind spent 80%+ of the day with their offsprings/families/villages. It's interesting to think that "quality time" which in this context simply means "2 hours per day together" should be enough. This is not how humans evolved. As harsh as it sounds, the philosophical question above…
>for tens of thousands of years mankind spent 80%+ of the day with their offsprings/families/villages
For tens of thousands of years kids played with other kids or hanged in the village watched by the older people in the community, while fathers did some guild style job or worked at the fields, and moms cooked and tended the house. They got together to eat and sleep at various points. For less fortunate families, kids started working as early as 8-10 years old. Little kids (even 8-12 years old) were also very frequently made to cater and babysit younger siblings while the parents were working.
>why have kids in the first place if they are then put into daycare until they are grown enough to not to have to care about them anymore at all...
This presupposes what it was supposed to prove, that 1-2 hours per day are not enough time.
It also comes from a place of big privilege, as for a hell of a lot of parents 1-2 hours per day are more than their hand-to-mouth work affords, so the point where it's like questioning why those bad parents of starving children that don't have bread are not feeding them cake!
Re: Having Kids
#583Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
Your kids are at the age before school where they are the hardest to deal with. Once a kid gets to school, magic happens. I mean it. - They get tired from learning stuff. And the teachers know how to deal with them. - They learn how to behave in a group. They start having actual friends. - You get a bunch of friends who are in the same situation as you, and you can use their kids to cancel out yours. (AKA playdates)…
Why did you decide to have kids? This is a serious question.
Re: Having Kids
#584I'd lay my life down for my kids, but I can't live vicariously through them.
They are both adults now, one has a Masters in Psychology and teaches Austic kids (deciding on persusing a PhD), the other has 4.0 GPA as a 3rd year Bio major and is on the path to being an MD. I'm proud of them, sure, but accomplishments are their own. They are not mine.
My goals have changed since the first one was born and I was still wearing fireproof underwear as often as I wanted, but I chase my dreams stll and I always have... for better or worse.
Apparently, that seems to have rubbed off on the youngins.... for better or worse.
Re: Having Kids
#585Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
My kid is in that age range and I'm going through the same thing as you.
I wake up at 4AM, walk the dog, get to work before 7 AM (some days as early as 5:30), work until 4 PM, get home at 5 PM, play with kid and eat dinner, get kid ready for bed and read to them, and then I have 30 min - 1 hour before going to bed. By this time I'm exhausted and when I try to do anything technical fall asleep 10 minutes in.
Our weekends revolve around my kid 100%. It is rare for me to be doing something besides playing with them or doing errands with them. I'm starting to see some independence though.
I really enjoy playing with my kid and it is a wonderful experience, but I've gotten out of shape and there are a lot of things I want to work on but never can. No hobbies right now outside of being a parent.
Re: Having Kids
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
It gets better. Way better. Last night I explained quicksort to one kid. Now we are designing cards to laser cut. The kids get interesting and independent quicker than you might imagine. The days are long, but the years are fast.
>The days are long, but the years are fast. Nicely put. That's going into my "how to explain parenting" quotes right alongside "it doesn't get easier, just a different kind of difficult"
It’s definitely perfect for that. It’s from this book.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6398634-the-happiness-pr...
Gretchen Rubin had an epiphany one rainy afternoon in the unlikeliest of places: a city bus. “The days are long, but the years are short,” she realized. “Time is passing, and I’m not focusing enough on the things that really matter.” In that moment, she decided to dedicate a year to her happiness project.
Re: Having Kids
#587I'd even go further and say it's irresponsible these days to post things like this. If nothing else, because we know the Earth cannot support many more people. Or at least it's looking that way. I think as a society we need to get away from sappy Hallmark channel stuff like this and celebrate the individual. We should not be made to feel like having kids is some transcendental thing. Studies consistently show childle…
I'd go further and say that the central question shouldn't be whether having kids makes our lives better in some way, but rather is it right to impose a life on a person, as well as the inevitable death they will eventually have to face, with all the potential negative experiences in between just to fulfill a selfish desire. A strong case can be made that the answer is no: https://aeon.co/essays/having-children-is-no…
So life is on balance a negative experience in your worldview? In all sincerity, I hope things turn around for you, because that sounds pretty bad
Re: Having Kids
#588Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
I'm in the same situation kid-wise but I don't feel like I have no life. I do manage to get some time to myself to exercise and grab coffee with friends now and then. The key to this is working remotely. Two major advantages that apply here: 1. Not wasting precious time on commuting (even 1 hour makes a huge difference) 2. Being way more flexible so I can run errands and house chores mid-day if I'm feeling unproducti…
For real. I have a 1 year old daughter, my wife stays home. I work remotely from a very nearby co-work space or from home some days. Life is still a constant challenge though, can't imagine having to be in an office 8+ hours plus commuting. My wife would lose it.
Re: Having Kids
#589Note that PG has two incredibly important positive factors that make his experience of parenthood much better: he has a great partner, and he is very wealthy. People who don't have these power-ups might have much more mixed feelings about the experience. I would actually like to have kids, but from a young age I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. The reason is that if I were forc…
>...I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. This, right here, encapsulates what is so wrong with this present iteration of society. Having kids is now something that you do if you're wealthy and can afford it, or if you're extremely poor and cannot afford birth control (or just don't know about it ... before the downvotes come, yes I know there are a lot of factors that influence hi…
The "stuff" thing really resonated with me. I value not having a lot of stuff. I prefer less clutter, fewer things to maintain or care about. I hate that our society is often centered around the acquisition of material things, most of which have no practical use, and even dubious aesthetic use. I'm certainly not completely spartan, and do have stuff, but I try to be careful about what I let into my home (and admittedly have a few boxes of things that I really need to go through and probably get rid of). My sister and her husband own more kid-related stuff than I own stuff in total. If I do have kids, I don't want that, but struggle to see how it's possible. The necessities alone are pretty numerous, and I find it hard to believe it's possible to raise a kid without at least some books, toys, etc.
Re: Having Kids
#590It's not entirely paranoia. If we're talking the West, there's barely anywhere that isn't significantly more racially diverse than 30 years ago. Who wants their children roaming in a place filled with foreigners who don't share the same culture, have conflicting values, have moral stances deemed abhorrent by our standards (and vice versa), and who may not even speak the same language? Our instinctive mistrust and caution in that situation is well-evolved. Multiracialism is catastrophic for communal trust.
The more egregious collapses, such as with the high violent crime in majority black American neighborhoods or the horrifying rate of pedophilia and gang-rape in parts of the UK and across Europe are testament to the fact that this is a healthy parental response, not misguided paranoia.