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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#551

Post by Aeolun »

sershe wrote: post #310
triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

One of the reasons I'm never having kids is seeing just this pattern. For everyone I can recall right now, it lasts forever. They have more time later but the drive is gone. I've actually seen a few of people with a shared hobby and a toddler be like "kids won't stop me from doing X, in fact it's going to be better with kids to teach/inspire/...!", and then they disappear forever (up to 5 years so far). Or (skiing ex…

From my experience, this is absolutely true. I figured children wouldn’t interfere with my hobbies because I’d still have evenings and the weekend to do stuff.

Turns out that during the week you are generally too exhausted, and in the weekend you always have to figure out where to leave your child if you won’t want to saddle your partner with them.

You could bring your kids, but people without children (rightly so) quickly tire of this, so you mostly end up interacting with other couples with children, and that’s glorious too, because suddenly there’s 4 instead of 2 qualified adults to pay attention.

On the other hand, I didn’t expect the amount of satisfaction I would get out of children to be this great either, and it was definitely worth the bargain.

Re: Having Kids

#552

Post by kmarc »

coldtea wrote: post #527
bryanmgreen wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No clue why you're being downvoted. I too wonder why anyone would want children if they don't actively want to spend time and raise them.

Raising children is not about being a helicopter parent like many Americans understand it. It wasn't even in the US like that, until the 80s or so, when media people and book authors inspired profitable guilt to parents, and the boomers started making pandering and spoiling their kids the norm. If we're talking about kids less than school age, then sure, parents are with them most of the day. After school age however…

> it's rather more time than kids historically got.

But... But... Any reference to this? All I can see here that some people think that "history" is how their great-grandparents were.

No!

After industrialization and urbanization, so less then a couple hundred years ago did humans start this new lifestyle. You don't even have to travel back in time, just travel to places where tribes and their commons are still around (to a certain extent). You will see, that "history" is far away from going to an office 9-5 and then spend 2 hours with your offsprings.

Re: Having Kids

#553

Post by gobins »

papito wrote: post #453
gobins wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dad of a newborn here. I had to adapt. I had to make time for things that I want to learn. When I am on the train, now I take a book or even get work done on my laptop. I had to also cut down my netflix time to zero. I almost have no time left for physical exercise. Planning to fix that by getting a treadmill at home.

I have a NordicTrack foldable rowing machine. Fits very nice in an NYC apartment even. Haven't used it for a couple of months.... No kids, though.

I have been reading amazon reviews for the foldable ones. Not sure if I can trust them though. I have given rowing machines some thought. It will be a toss between the two.

Re: Having Kids

#554

Post by jlongr »

anon9001 wrote: post #440
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you consider your life so far has been only pain, nothing of worth or fulfillment because you've not had a nest of millions-of-dollars to lie in? You'd rather not have lived? Do you resent your parents having you? [Questions, not rhetorical statements, genuine curiosity.] It's certainly an issue for many when considering parenthood - is it fair to raise a child in this situation - but I've not seen it expressed so…

Honestly? No, yes, and somewhat. > So you consider your life so far has been only pain, nothing of worth or fulfillment because you've not had a nest of millions-of-dollars to lie in? Not only pain, but definitely not actualized either. My life to date is a gamble that I'll maybe be able to achieve autonomy before death. If I was born into wealth, I would have started with autonomy. Not everyone is cut out for work,…

I don't consider your view extreme. I think it is quite rational and probably what many people believe but are afraid to express in the face of the uncompromising exuberance of those who have children.

>I can't think of a time after childhood where I've had longer than 20 consecutive days without a job to be done.

This resonated with me in particular. I can't imagine placing another unwitting individual onto this ceaseless treadmill.

Re: Having Kids

#555

Post by Aeolun »

james-skemp wrote: post #479
lonelappde wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful, one day you might realize you missed something important. After I'm dead, my kids can continue my work better than I could do it myself.

> After I'm dead, my kids can continue my work better than I could do it myself. Assuming they find your work interesting. I'm really hoping my son enjoys playing games (board and video) and programming, but he could totally turn into a jock. (Although genetics says he'll never be good at basketball.)

If he turns into a jock, then he can continue all the work you never quite got around to ;)

Re: Having Kids

#556

Post by ant6n »

coldtea wrote: post #521
triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

> Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything is about…

You think people two thousand years ago, or for that matter two hundred years ago, didn't 80-100 hours at the office every week of the year?

Re: Having Kids

#557

Post by kelnos »

asdff wrote: post #355
triceratops wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars, in particular, are terrible for kids They're the number 1 killer of children in the US. They are objectively terrible for kids.

Especially the SUV. Virtually unsurvivable.

And everyone (especially parents) feels like they need an SUV, because everyone else has one, and they believe being in an SUV in a crash will make it more survivable (especially if the opposing vehicle is an SUV). It's a vehicular arms race, and everyone is defecting instead of cooperating.

Re: Having Kids

#558

Post by remarkEon »

d_burfoot wrote: post #97

Note that PG has two incredibly important positive factors that make his experience of parenthood much better: he has a great partner, and he is very wealthy. People who don't have these power-ups might have much more mixed feelings about the experience. I would actually like to have kids, but from a young age I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. The reason is that if I were forc…

>...I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence.

This, right here, encapsulates what is so wrong with this present iteration of society. Having kids is now something that you do if you're wealthy and can afford it, or if you're extremely poor and cannot afford birth control (or just don't know about it ... before the downvotes come, yes I know there are a lot of factors that influence high birth rates among poorer demographics).

This isn't a sustainable situation, at all. We need a complete realigning of what society - and indeed Civilization - is supposed to be about. Family formation is used as an economic marker today, for a ton of policy proposals. More families means more purchases of stuff. Fewer families means less buying of stuff, and leads to policies that might be tuned to address the economic "problem" but don't really address the societal one.

Re: Having Kids

#559

Post by Aeolun »

coldtea wrote: post #521
triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

> Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything is about…

I believe the level of work and childcare you had to do some 8000 years ago to be quite a bit less than what it is now, since basically everything was communual.

Of course, you didn’t really have the same things to study either, so it might still work out positive.

Re: Having Kids

#560

Post by philwelch »

malvosenior wrote: post #108
quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

While I agree with your later point about having larger families leading to a healthier mix of time spent, I cant agree with your first point. Yes, most parents talk a lot about their kids and that can be annoying if you don't have kids. Most single people are just as annoying though. You can talk about your kids or you can talk about your vacation, or your job... for the most part people will find it interesting if…

I had a coworker once who was a pickup artist. Talking to him was a LOT more annoying than talking to the parents I worked with.
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