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The Cybertruck is not brutalist

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Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#91

Post by Ari_Ugwu »

coldtea wrote: post #87
claudiawerner wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's up to each person to make the effort to grow their understanding, which requires study and self-development. That's true, but it's falling into the same problem I was trying to tease out of GP, which is whether an argument can be produced that study and self-development will lead to one appreciating Bach over Harry Potter. We say that spherical earth theories are superior to flat earth ones not because individu…

> That's true, but it's falling into the same problem I was trying to tease out of GP, which is whether an argument can be produced that study and self-development will lead to one appreciating Bach over Harry Potter. An historical/statistical argument can surely be made. You seldom see people who have studied aesthetics, music, literature, etc, preferring Harry Potter over Bach. You'll see many more who seldom read…

I tend to rely on michael Scriven's take from _Primary Philosophy_. He suggests (I believe) that aesthetics is one of the few remaining pure philosophical ideas. That is that it has yet to branch into an accepted science.

So all arguments devolve into making a case before a non-existent court of higher appeals. Which I enjoy and only point out here because I love any chance to offer the book up as suggestion. 320 pages of dense mind hackery. Enjoy!

P.S. - You may critique me, but the effort may be largely wasted. I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#92

Post by keiferski »

murgindrag wrote: post #90
keiferski wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the activity of art-making and the field of aesthetics (defined broadly as philosophical thought about art-making) are thousands of years old? And that just as there are arguments for certain political systems over others, there are arguments for certain ways of interpreting and valuing art over others? The idea that artistic value is only based on modern academics is really quite myopic.

For political systems, I can look at how happy people are, how healthy people are, how affluent they are, how much economic progress there is, how much scientific progress there is, equality, stability, as well as apply whatever theories of morality I like (e.g. utilitarianism). There is a value judgement as to how I weigh those, or which ones I care about, but I can evaluate it in some way. People might argue about…

...and there are ways to evaluate art or literature and make value judgments. You simply seem to be unaware of them.

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#93

Post by keiferski »

Isinlor wrote: post #89
keiferski wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should care because (presumably) you don't want to be an ignorant person (as in, lacking knowledge). If you don't see why being ignorant is undesirable, then I can't really help you. If you're genuinely interested in learning about aesthetics, then you'll have to do a lot of reading. As with pretty much any complex topic, there are no easy one-line answers. I recommend starting with the Wikipedia page, browsing s…

I'm sorry, but your argument can be applied to everything. > You should care because (presumably) you don't want to be an ignorant person (as in, lacking knowledge). Everybody is ignorant about approximately everything. People may find me ignorant because I don't follow some celebrities, sports etc. We need to choose what we educate ourselves on. To me, it seems like you are making a social proof argument. Other peop…

Well I can only speak personally, but if I have a strong opinion on something, I prefer to be quite knowledgeable about the topic. Having public opinions on aesthetic matters while knowingly admitting ignorance seems pretty foolish and close-minded to me.

And no I wouldn’t agree that aesthetics is a curiosity; I think it’s perhaps one of the most important topics there is. Wittgenstein, Nietzsche and countless others would agree.

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#94

Post by Isinlor »

keiferski wrote: post #93
Isinlor wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but your argument can be applied to everything. > You should care because (presumably) you don't want to be an ignorant person (as in, lacking knowledge). Everybody is ignorant about approximately everything. People may find me ignorant because I don't follow some celebrities, sports etc. We need to choose what we educate ourselves on. To me, it seems like you are making a social proof argument. Other peop…

Well I can only speak personally, but if I have a strong opinion on something, I prefer to be quite knowledgeable about the topic. Having public opinions on aesthetic matters while knowingly admitting ignorance seems pretty foolish and close-minded to me. And no I wouldn’t agree that aesthetics is a curiosity; I think it’s perhaps one of the most important topics there is. Wittgenstein, Nietzsche and countless others…

Well, I'm pretty happy to discount theology for example. My knowledge of the subject is rather small, but big enough that I'm aware that it is a very rich discipline of knowledge. As atheist/agnostic I just don't see any use for it.

I'm reading "Wittgenstein’s Aesthetics" from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy [0] and ... At least this summary doesn't peak my interest. Granted, I seem to have different opinions to Wittgenstein, but that's not the issue. The issue is that the arguments presented are, dare I say it, not aesthetically pleasing :) .

> Wittgenstein, Nietzsche and countless others would agree.

Again, proof from authority + social proof. I don't care how big their names are, or how many people believe it. So, I will end here.

[0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein-aesthetics/

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#97

Post by tpmx »

generatorguy wrote: post #86
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #22

Brutalist or not, it’s not real. That car as shown will absolutely not pass crash testing, European homologation and pedestrian impact, both issues with it being 1/8” stainless steel panels (separate discussion how those make no damn sense!). It has no mirrors, or wipers. What has been shown is a roughly drawn concept. Anyone that thinks they’re going to get exactly that and exactly for $40,000 hasn’t been around the…

Europe probably isn’t the target market from what I understand many more people drive pickups in North America than Europe?

They are taking "pre-orders" (more like interest-free loans) in European markets.

E.g. https://www.tesla.com/sv_se/cybertruck/design#battery

The content and the price is localized (e.g. it's at an even 1000 SEK).

There is a caveat listed: "All configurations have US specifications only."

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#98

Post by buboard »

I don't think the truck's design will survive the trough of disillusionment. It's not a great or classic design, not even in the way that iphone-modernist-revival became classic.

Also the idea that brutalism could be something to aspire to is misguided

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#99

Post by buboard »

llampx wrote: post #71
NicoJuicy wrote: post #68

Meanwhile, CyberTruck isn't allowed in West-Europe due to safety concerns. It bends too little in case of an accident.

Nobody has crash-tested a Cybertruck yet...

this traffic pylon did

https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-hits-traffic-pylon-with-new-cy...

Re: The Cybertruck is not brutalist

#100

Post by maxerickson »

no_flags wrote: post #36

Kind of reminds me of this copypasta that has become a meme in the emo music scene: "Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to…

This is more of an aside than a reply to anything you said, but it can be fun to look at how Spotify has mapped things out:

http://everynoise.com/

(they are working to make genres that their listeners use, not just asserting it top down)

There's a bunch of blog posts about that map linked at the bottom.

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