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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#201

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

This unfortunately just gives the same old description of having kids from a position of extreme privilege.

When you have no job stability, or you yourself suffer severe depression, or you’re just poor and have no means or support network, then having kids is insanely stressful way way way beyond the kind of yuppie parents-who-think-not-sleeping-is-stress lightweight stuff.

Kids, like houses, vacations, fancy university degrees and adequate medical care, are something only accessible to rich people (and triggers a knee-jerk reaction in such people to try to argue they aren’t rich with ineffective anecdata and arbitrary thresholds).

Re: Having Kids

#202

Post by jv22222 »

This is one of the best and most accurate things I have ever seen written about having kids - it truly is a paradigm shift for your life - in a good way.

My kid (5yo boy) is very outgoing and talks to just about anyone he meets, about anything that comes to his mind (which is usually some aspect of playing Minecraft or Slime Ranchers).

He gets so excited about it and tells them about his latest discovery like Minecraft portals or Quantum Slime.

When he does this, it's so easy to tell who has kids and who doesn't because the ones who do really engage in the conversation and the ones who don't (95% of the time) try to end the conversation as quickly as possible.

I think back to before I had kids and somehow I can't remember a version of me that was like that, but I probably was.

The thing that resonated with me most was when PG talked about finding peace.

There's so many random moments when I'm with my kid and I think, this, right now, is the happiest moment in my life.

Re: Having Kids

#203

Post by nradov »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #106
ajross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? What exactly is wrong with parents talking to you about their kids? Kids are a big part of our lives. We're telling you about our life. I think what you're saying is that you want us to be interested in different stuff, more along the lines of what you're interested in, because you're not interested in kids. That doesn't sound so much like a social problem to me as a simple personality mismatch.

> Can you elaborate? What exactly is wrong with parents talking to you about their kids? I'm not sure I can, but let me try. Some of my coworkers will chat to me for five minutes about watching that new Scorsese movie, and maybe make plans to hang out after work. Let's call this Group A. Some other ones will talk to me for twenty minutes about how their kids are really into Frozen 2, and how they dressed up as Elsa f…

Why would you care about hanging out with coworkers after work? I've never understood that mentality.

Re: Having Kids

#205

Post by casion »

adrianmonk wrote: post #143
casion wrote: post #34

I don't have kids. However, I teach up to 18 hours a day with children of various ages. I've done this for 22 years. I also have been the de facto babysitter for my family since I was 14. Kids in my home almost constantly. The #1 thing I've learned is that kids love to help, . If you are busy and shush them away then they'll cause havoc. Involve them ever so slightly and you can continue your task. Realizing this was…

> kids love to help [ ... ] Involve them ever so slightly and you can continue your task. I think it can be a mindset or awareness thing, but some people are also resistant to involving anyone else in their stuff. It requires having an attitude where you believe others might have have something worthwhile to contribute, and it requires exercising faith in that person. And thinking through how they might contribute an…

I think that's the most succinct way to put it: Give children stake in your interests.

It doesn't even have to be direct. If I'm working on a lesson (I teach technology), I can ask the kid to come up with some ideas, help clean the room, decide on what to have for lunch, help me grade assignments, etc...

At home it's the same. Help clean, ask if they can help me find a mistake I made, ask about food, ask them to comb my hair (funny, but kids 3-10 love doing this for some reason), ask them to put some music on for us, etc...

Of course it doesn't always stick and the kid wants some other attention, but when it _does_ stick I find it to be as beneficial as the time lost.

Re: Having Kids

#206

Post by jl6 »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Yep. That’s about it. That feeling of not being able to do something, but not being able to do nothing. I keep imagining that when they grow up and leave home I’ll have an almighty outburst of productivity as I get cracking on all the thoughts and ideas I’ve had that haven’t made it far up the priority list.

Re: Having Kids

#207

Post by exclusiv »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

I made it clear with my wife that I would need to have some time for my activities before we had kids. Luckily she has some friends that believe the same because she has no hobbies. So we take turns each month giving each other time away from the kids. So she might go out with her girlfriends and I might go golf or kayak.

Also, I don't subscribe to the notion that a parent needs to be playing with their kid every waking minute. My wife is more toward the opposite but getting more flexible. My son plays with Legos and other building toys by himself and I like that. I did the same when I was young. You have two kids so let them play with each other and you and your SO should dedicate more time as partners together. Get your date nights in.

Your kids are getting old enough that they should be playing with each other all day long soon and that will open up your time. Mine are younger than yours so I have a few more years but I hear having multiple is a game-changer for parents.

The other thing I would suggest is to just take your kids with you everywhere you can. I got a hiking backpack and I take him to music festivals, he's flown overseas and traveled around Europe, National Parks, etc. He doesn't make a peep in the hiking backpack and loves being able to see different things outdoors. I highly recommend!

As far as doing a side project, maybe do the planning/strategy for it while hanging out with them but when your kids are playing with each other. I can't code very well with kids around but I can still ideate.

Re: Having Kids

#208

Post by crimsonalucard »

miles wrote: post #181
sparker72678 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed

Decades of data suggest parenthood makes people unhappy https://bigthink.com/sex-relationships/should-you-have-kids Many Parents Are Happier Than Non-Parents — But Not in the U.S. https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/paren... Having kids makes you happier, but only when they move out https://www.newscientist.com/article/2213655-having-kids-mak... The depressing reason why having kids doesn’t actuall…

There's a strange anecdotal contradiction with the research. Although much research says otherwise I'm finding that anecdotally people disagree with my statement and they actually end up have multiple children indicating that the first one was an enjoyable experience.

I think what's going on is that those research studies are picking up on unbiased measures of happiness.

In general if you ask people if children make their lives happier, they answer yes. However if you ask the same people about there overall happiness on a 1-5 scale people with children score lower then people without.

This makes sense from a biological perspective. Having an extra person to take care of; who only takes advantage of your hard earned resources without contributing does not give you any intrinsic form of happiness in any context unless this extra person is your child. Your body produces chemicals to counteract the unhappiness to satisfy your biological imperative but the main stressors are still their and can be measured in a survey that asks you questions about your happiness without the context of children.

It's hard to say if it actually is better to have kids. Is it like falling in love? Are we better off with the ability to fall in love?

As of this writing, my initial post has negative three votes which indicates general disagreement. Obviously, I don't have kids so I can only observe the phenomenon from an impartial standpoint.

Re: Having Kids

#209

Post by ohadron »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

I'm in the same situation kid-wise but I don't feel like I have no life. I do manage to get some time to myself to exercise and grab coffee with friends now and then.

The key to this is working remotely. Two major advantages that apply here:

1. Not wasting precious time on commuting (even 1 hour makes a huge difference)

2. Being way more flexible so I can run errands and house chores mid-day if I'm feeling unproductive and use the time I earned to catch up on work later.

If working for a distributed company is an option for you - I can highly recommend. If not - from what I see around me it gets way easier and more fun when your youngest is ~3 y/o.

Re: Having Kids

#210

Post by codingdave »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

It gets better - My kids range from 14 to 9.The 14 year old is hanging out with friends and making jewelry. The 12 year old is sitting in my bedroom, reading. The 9 year old is playing games. I'm coding on personal projects, and my wife is in the basement making blankets. We have an entire day of just all doing whatever we want. Weekdays are busier with school and work, but you the point is that you do get your time back, once the kids are old enough to have some independence and interests of their own.

I'd recommend just enjoying being a parent while they are young. They need you at this age. Play with them, read to them, and all that. Write down ideas you'd like to pursue in a couple years when your free time returns. And you can be confident that it will return.

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