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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

191–200 of 902 posts

Re: Having Kids

#191
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, worries never go away no matter where you’re at in life. It boils down to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. He doesn’t have to worry about financial stuff and instead gets to focus his worries on getting sick, dying prematurely, and not giving his children the awesome life he can with his unique personality. You didn’t mention that anywhere in your list, but I guarantee you it’s on his.

Poorer people also worry about that. And that's even worse for us with a lower wage. If I die, who will be able to provide for my children? I'm sure Paul is able to make arrangements so his kids can still have a finatially stable living if he dies prematurely. It is a fact that life is easier for him now. Just as much life is easier for me than probably around 99% of the people in the planet. Even though I'm nowhere…

[deleted]

Re: Having Kids

#192
post #164

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

It gets better. Way better. Last night I explained quicksort to one kid. Now we are designing cards to laser cut. The kids get interesting and independent quicker than you might imagine. The days are long, but the years are fast.

I'm not sure if you're referencing his post or not, but Sam Altman has an excellent piece about this exact mindset.

I meditate on this idea quite a bit.

https://blog.samaltman.com/the-days-are-long-but-the-decades...

Re: Having Kids

#193
As others have pointed out, ones experience of having children depends on many factors, particularly personal economics (which after all, translates from Greek as "household management").

If you can afford the expenses associated with having children, and are not completely put off by the idea, there's a good argument to be made that there is no more fulfilling a way to spend your money.

Given this, it would be interesting to hear how pg's take on having children intersects with his other public thoughts on things like UBI, universal healthcare, education, etc.

Re: Having Kids

#194

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

Agreed. I do remember reading somewhere that the average current full time working mother spends more time with her children than a housewife in the 50s. Children used to go outside and play and have more unstructured time. I feel like there is this whole odd child-centric culture in the US. It is bizarre how many young adults I meet nowadays who have not been left without adult supervision for more than 15 minutes their entire childhood.

Most of my friends are from childhood. For the ones who have children, about half of them have turned into uninteresting people who are incapable of carrying a conversation about anything other than their children. And some of them were extremely interesting beforehand. A few have snapped out of it when their kids have turned 3-5, but most seem stuck forever.

When I go to visit family and family friends outside the US, they all have a bunch of kids but none of them have this disease where they can only talk about the kids. But there's also much more family support nearby and societal norms allow the children to be more independent.

Re: Having Kids

#195
post #62

I regret reading this essay because now the discouragement is back. I have wanted children; my wife has not. I am determined not to force the issue as she would be the one undertaking most of the burden, and why should I cause her to resent me? So I made peace with it, but every time something like this comes up I am torn again.

You might want to balance PG's essay with some other viewpoints as well:

Decades of data suggest parenthood makes people unhappy https://bigthink.com/sex-relationships/should-you-have-kids

Google confessional: Your search engine knows if you regret having kids https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se...

Many Parents Are Happier Than Non-Parents — But Not in the U.S. https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/paren...

Having kids makes you happier, but only when they move out https://www.newscientist.com/article/2213655-having-kids-mak...

The depressing reason why having kids doesn’t actually make you happier https://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-theory-on-why-having-k...

Re: Having Kids

#196
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I endorse looking at data like this, but I think there is much better way to estimate how kids would affect your happiness: do activities that put you in extensive contact with kids, e.g., volunteer to baby sit for your friends/family, offer to tutor/advise neighborhood kids, and coach youth sports. (In addition to learning about yourself, you're helping out parents and kids when you do this, so win-win.) Obviously t…

This might work for some people, but for me it would have been a worthless and tragically misleading signal. I got modest-at-best enjoyment from being around kids before I had one, but the past 10 years with our son has held many of the best experiences of my life. Your own kid is a very different thing than all the other kids you might spend time with. My experience is more like pg describes, where I had a lot of tr…

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you would enjoy spending time around a stranger's children as much as your own! I just mean that if you like spending time around a stranger's children more than average, or if you find babysitting less grating than average, this gives you some info that's specific to you, rather than being at the population level.

Re: Having Kids

#197

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

I can relate, but no wisdom here.

Re: Having Kids

#198
One thing that I don't see much discussion on is a single income setup.

My wife was employed when our daughter was born (oh lord 13 years ago) but we had hired help (this was in India - that was a very affordable option). Eventually she decided to stay at home because she wanted more family time and quite possibly that's the best thing that ever happened to our family.

Suddenly all of us had time and the luxury of one person with flexible time is amazing.

My career hit an exponential growth after this and she has a major hand in it. I am able to enjoy a cycling habit (20hrs every week) because of this.

It was a hard decision at first. Obviouslt financially, we also hadnt accounted for how much of our identity was defined by the job, so that was interesting. Navigating friends and family who considered that to be THE defining thing was also interesting :). I obviously have a lot to write on this since it is still a thing :)

Overall Id suggest it to anyone who is willing and able to try.

Re: Having Kids

#199
Worth noting that this is a western city- centric view of children. It's much different for people living in small communities or near parents and other family. Children spend way less time near parents when the neighborhood is familiar and safe enough, and instead spend most of their time playing with other kids. Parents today spend twice as much time with their kids than 2 generations ago, and it's probably not because they really really want to, but that there is no other option. I'm also not sure if kids spending so much of their childhood around adults instead of other kids is better.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-...

Re: Having Kids

#200

I agree with this a lot. I was pretty anti-kid, not in the sense that I didn’t want them ever, but that I didn’t want them “any time soon.” My wife was this way too, until one day she wasn’t. I still felt pretty ambivalent about the whole thing until our first was born. Children really are interesting, and really do fill life with all kinds of quietly wonderful moments. We live in San Francisco, which is very hilly.…

The car-is-anti-human sentiment is one I can deeply empathize with. Just like oxygen and water, cars and their perils were with our generation since birth, and therefore for most are subconsciously taken for granted in life. But once you spend enough time in urban areas that have consciously rooted them out, you realize that their super loud noises, toxic smelly fumes, and omnipresent fear of death from them are indeed crushing to the human spirit. I’m also looking for cities in the U.S. that really do put “walkability” (and biking, e.g.) first. But the damage is so bad from the 20th century, thanks to the invention and explosive proliferation of the car, and socially the psychology of their existence so deeply rooted in most of our minds (“There could be no other way...”), that I don’t see enough strength to this movement. I’m typing from South Beach in Miami, e.g., which I think would be a perfect home were it not for the (probably, on average by land use in many cities) ~40% ownership by cars. I’ve lived in e.g. Amsterdam where the entire transport system was built around biking, and that from experience was such a liberating mindset to have every day, being able to bike across the city in 15 minutes. Alternatively I do wonder about e.g. Barcelona’s superblocks, about how the livability in small car-less or minimal car neighborhoods may improve (i.e. what small-scale neighborhoods without cars but also with sufficient amenities could be fantastic to live in?). Living on lush college campuses is typically a good example of where a much smaller percent of the land use goes to car transport, and it is expected that people walk and bike more - generally across landscapes with a lot more green than dead concrete.

I’m wondering if there any new urban projects, ideally in the U.S, potentially on the scale of the superblocks or e.g. NYC’s High Line / Atlanta’s Beltline / Miami’s Underline, where ecosystems are emerging beyond the reach of cars?

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