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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#91

Post by adrianmonk »

daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

I agree your DNA is heavily involved, but I don't think he's trying to deny that, at least the way I interpreted it.

I think "simply" is an important word in that sentence, and when I read "is not ... simply your DNA", I read "simply" as "merely". He's saying that, sure, there is a biological compulsion involved, but there is also more to it.

The kid is a human being you can have a meaningful relationship with. They will do or say things that are interesting or worthwhile or significant in a way that's not really connected to the fact that they're your kid.

(It can be compared to a romantic relationship. Are there hormones making you want to be with a romantic partner because you like their looks, etc.? Absolutely. But on top of that, you can have a real friendship with a romantic partner where you have shared interests you enjoy pursuing together, you have interesting discussions, you support each other, and so on.)

On a side note, some parents can only see their kid through the lens of parenting. They rarely or never connect with their kid on the human-to-human level, and every thought and interaction is on the parent-to-child level. Maybe they just haven't thought in those terms, or they're afraid of undermining parental authority by being too much of a buddy, or their sense of parental duty dominates their thoughts, or maybe they can't connect personally to anyone else either.

Re: Having Kids

#92

Post by davidw »

honkycat wrote: post #77

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me. Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family. His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners. He won't sweat t…

I don't think he's anywhere near one of the absolute wealthiest people out there, but these facts are certainly true.

Money doesn't buy you happiness, but it sure doesn't hurt, and takes away so many of the stresses many of us face.

Re: Having Kids

#93

Post by raldi »

> To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you'll be happy if you join the cult too — but only because joining the cult will alter your mind in a way that will make you happy to be a cult member.

There are strong parallels here to my feelings about Burning Man.

Re: Having Kids

#94

Post by georgewsinger »

> I hate to say this, because being ambitious has always been a part of my identity, but having kids may make one less ambitious.

Of course this is true. Can someone think of a single $10B+ founded by someone who already had a kid? Now a single $100B+ company?

Re: Having Kids

#95

Post by dzohrob »

honkycat wrote: post #77

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me. Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family. His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners. He won't sweat t…

As a counterpoint, this essay resonated with me very deeply, and I earn a low salary for an engineer in NYC.

We do fine as a family and have to make compromises I couldn’t have imagined making prior to having kids, but it’s totally worth it.

This type of experience isn’t universal but doesn’t require massive wealth.

Re: Having Kids

#96

Post by hsm3 »

jessriedel wrote: post #66
haberman wrote: post #43

As someone who has wrestled a lot with the question of whether I ever want kids, I've sought out data. One thing I came across was this: https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se... > Adults with children are 3.6 times more likely to tell Google they regret their decision than are adults without children. I'd be curious if others have data on this. I'm especially interested in how many people have…

I endorse looking at data like this, but I think there is much better way to estimate how kids would affect your happiness: do activities that put you in extensive contact with kids, e.g., volunteer to baby sit for your friends/family, offer to tutor/advise neighborhood kids, and coach youth sports. (In addition to learning about yourself, you're helping out parents and kids when you do this, so win-win.) Obviously t…

This might work for some people, but for me it would have been a worthless and tragically misleading signal. I got modest-at-best enjoyment from being around kids before I had one, but the past 10 years with our son has held many of the best experiences of my life. Your own kid is a very different thing than all the other kids you might spend time with.

My experience is more like pg describes, where I had a lot of trouble projecting what it would be like, and in retrospect all the rational pro/con analysis I did wasn't really getting to the core of the matter.

Re: Having Kids

#97

Post by d_burfoot »

Note that PG has two incredibly important positive factors that make his experience of parenthood much better: he has a great partner, and he is very wealthy. People who don't have these power-ups might have much more mixed feelings about the experience.

I would actually like to have kids, but from a young age I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. The reason is that if I were forced to stay in a job (or other life situation) that I hated for the sake of the kids, I would start to resent them.

Re: Having Kids

#98

Post by PKop »

lordleft wrote: post #23

The decision to have kids is a lot like the decision to continue living. There is no logical basis for it. Or rather, any latticework of logic you erect to justify this choice is based on a foundation that has nothing to do with reason. It is an emotional and spiritual desire to live and love, and give more life and more love to the world. That's why I when see people engage in complex rational calculations about the…

To add to everything you said, which I agree with, having children is also a profound act of responsibility, or even obligation.

Along with all the logic games people play to justify not having children, they miss the overarching principle that they have a responsibility, to their ancestors, to match the gift of life that was given to them, to the sense of continuing the legacy of their parents, grandparents etc.

Or... one should, or even must, think this way to overcome the obsession with seeking a logical or selfish reason to have kids when they might not find one.

Re: Having Kids

#99

Post by getpolarized »

> Partly, and I won't deny it, this is because of serious chemical changes that happened almost instantly when our first child was born. It was like someone flipped a switch.

I have a step-daughter. It's amazing how protective I am over here. I'm not violent or confrontational by any means.

One time this drunk guy didn't like that she was on her phone (she wasn't doing anything wrong).

This guy was basically yelling at her... my adrenaline spiked and I was immediately in this guys face protecting her.

I mean you'd think this was the natural thing to do right? Of course it is... but what's interesting is that I don't have any recollection of actually making a conscious decision to take this action.

It was almost done and over with before I realized what happened.

The guy was actually arrested for public intoxication and taken away. He had been drinking in the movie theater and came out drunk.

Re: Having Kids

#100

Post by _pmf_ »

sombremesa wrote: post #17
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

I don't have kids but from what I know about small children they're likely to be a thousand times more selfish than you.

> from what I know about small children they're likely to be a thousand times more selfish than you

Wait until they are 12.

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