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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

171–180 of 902 posts

Re: Having Kids

#171

As someone who has wrestled a lot with the question of whether I ever want kids, I've sought out data. One thing I came across was this: https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se... > Adults with children are 3.6 times more likely to tell Google they regret their decision than are adults without children. I'd be curious if others have data on this. I'm especially interested in how many people have…

One possible confounder is that having children is a pretty much irreversible step. Whereas many people who don't have children might choose to have them later. So they regret their choice less, because it's a less final choice.

Another confounder is that parents with kids know what it's like to be single. Most people without children have no idea what it's like to have kids of their own. There is a subset that knows exactly what it's like, and it's those who have lost their children. Ask them if they regret their choice. Or actually don't, because people in that situation almost never made it there by choice.

Re: Having Kids

#172

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Yep i was there. Picked up bike commuting to work because it replaced time driving, not required more time. I also started drawing because you can do it in short spurts, and you can do it anywhere.

The time commitment has changed for me but not quite enough where i can sit for hours and code something outside of work. My kids are 5 and 7

Re: Having Kids

#173
There's something I've noticed that's always conspicuously absent from Paul's writing: The ability to view the world from a perspective other than his own.

I'm sure having kids was great when you were rich and it was the '90s. Not so much anymore, especially if you aren't rich.

Re: Having Kids

#174
post #155

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

What almost always bothers me about Paul's essays is that he includes 'facts' like they apply to everyone. This is why I don't like most of his eesays. For example: "..but having kids may make one less ambitious.". It might apply to Paul but I have never been more ambitious since I had kids. In his next sentences he almost makes us feeling guilty for it because "..you're probably going to care more about them than yo…

The words "may" and "probably" seem to indicate these statements are not facts, and may probably not apply to everyone.

Re: Having Kids

#175

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

It turned my habits around. I worked remote for 6+ years when my daughter arrived. Had a generous 10 weeks of leave of which I took 7 and I stayed up late at night or all night for the feedings which meshed well because I was always a night owl.

That was 21 months ago.

This week I was in bed before 9pm at least 3 nights and up at 7 am with the spawn to take her to day care. I get a shower and get her dropped off and get back home by 9am and immediately start work. I don’t get up from the chair till noon for a quick break and back to it for another 3 hours. My wife and kid get home around 4:30 or 5 and I slap together something frozen and barely healthy for all of us and then my wife does the bath routine and I read slack on my phone and think about how much I didn’t get done. We play for an hour or so and bed time is at 7:30pm. After that I try to wrap up loose ends and make notes for the next day and usually so tired I just go on to bed. I’m stuck in this cycle. It is so hard to stay up after bed time because I know I have to be up and at em first thing in the morning and can’t lay in bed till 8:30 or 9 because I stayed up till 2am.

I would work 2 or 3 side gigs on top of my job previously and now I have no mental room or energy for it. It’s a hard pill to swallow. I put a ton of stuff on my google calendar. Friends want to play a game on Friday night? It gets on the calendar and I usually can’t make it past 10:30pm. It makes me keep the value of my time in the front of my mind. Do I want to play video games or read and play with my daughter? Sometimes I choose the games for my own recharging. I want to start my own thing so bad and I just can’t get the courage to make the jump and don’t have the energy to do it on the side.

Re: Having Kids

#176

> Some of my worries about having kids were right, though. They definitely make you less productive. I know having kids makes some people get their act together, but if your act was already together, you're going to have less time to do it in. In particular, you're going to have to work to a schedule. Kids have schedules. I'm not sure if it's because that's how kids are, or because it's the only way to integrate thei…

This is likely not a problem pg has, but becoming a parent can provide an ambition to provide for them and have enough success to be able to spend time with them.

Re: Having Kids

#177
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What almost always bothers me about Paul's essays is that he includes 'facts' like they apply to everyone. This is why I don't like most of his eesays. For example: "..but having kids may make one less ambitious.". It might apply to Paul but I have never been more ambitious since I had kids. In his next sentences he almost makes us feeling guilty for it because "..you're probably going to care more about them than yo…

With the qualifiers (“may”, “probably”) provided I’m not sure I see him as offering any absolutes, at least in your quoted passages.

True but he starts out by writing down his own experiences and the he suddenly changes to may and probably if it applies to most people.

Re: Having Kids

#178

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

I didn't even know Paul Graham had kids. I don't recall them playing much of a part in his business, his essays, his creations, etc.

So how exactly does that show the biggest problem you have with kids?

Alternately, for some reason you laser-focus on the topic for some reason and you can't help but let it fill the entirety of your perception. This appears in Facebook a lot where people complain about baby pictures or anecdotes and somehow ignore the 99.99% of absolutely irrelevant inanity that the rest of their feed is ("Oh you ate at a restaurant...wowwweeeee"). It happens in loud restaurants when people filter out enormous volumes of ambient sound to focus on the sounds of a child sixty feet away. When someone has some sort of hangup about children, it's amazing how large it can appear in their perspective.

Re: Having Kids

#179

Note that PG has two incredibly important positive factors that make his experience of parenthood much better: he has a great partner, and he is very wealthy. People who don't have these power-ups might have much more mixed feelings about the experience. I would actually like to have kids, but from a young age I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. The reason is that if I were forc…

I would ask yourself how likely this nightmare scenario really is, since you seem to be planning your life around it. Seems super unlikely. I'd invest in selling you insurance at like 4:1 odds that it won't come true that you would ever resent your kids because you were forced to stay in a job that you hated.

Re: Having Kids

#180
From watching nature with a dispassionate eye, you would tend to get the idea that the meaning and purpose of life is nothing more than reproduction, i.e. making more life. Well, why would it be different for humans, other than the exquisite vanity of our wanting it to be different? Our wanting the universe to be governed by a god who looks like us, for example. Our wanting to be "happy" or "fulfilled" and so on. No, we're basically animals, just mentally a bit more complicated. So I think our lives are pretty much all about reproduction too, but with an overlay of "meaning" that is completely arbitrary. Your life can be about reproduction if you want, or it can be meaningless, or it can be filled with whatever meaning you want to fill it with (i.e. make up from whole cloth, or borrow from the collective). I find this freeing, because it puts me in control, but your mileage may vary.

Anyway, my challenge to everyone here is to try and unify the pre- and post-children mindsets. The stuff you're interested in doing before you have kids might be the same stuff that later interests you about your kids. Take the statement, "Shoot, I have kids, so I can't go out anymore." Well why were you "going out?" Was it "to meet people?" That's kind of just code for "meeting sex partners" and don't tell me this is not at least in the back of your mind, hovering near the threshold of consciousness (if not an explicit goal). And well, you know what sex is for. It's not so you can have a good time; it's what evolution uses to trick you into making more humans.

When you're attracted to someone, you're really just assessing them and deeming them reproductively fit. Those traits might include a fit body indicating health/robustness; a nice face indicating (studies have shown) the person is near the average of the gene pool and therefore carrying tried-and-true genetic material; a personality that indicates a good chance they would behave kindly toward any offspring; and an intellect that shows they could solve any problems that come up.

Working with computers or doing any other challenging mental problem, playing an instrument, having a bunch of money (or things that cost a lot of money), doing feats of daring like base-jumping or whatnot, all of these are ways of displaying your fitness for mating. Before some of them became "occupations" you could earn "money" with, they would've been used for solving problems to protect or feed or clothe (etc.) the village or tribe and its progeny. (Not base-jumping specifically, but challenging oneself with risky feats of daring, and coming out on top, that does prove something about your courage and skill, which would at the very least be useful in hunting or defense.)

School and all childhood learning are preparation for mating, or for learning one of the above preparations for mating, or for "being an adult" which equals mating. Interestingly some of that involves sheltering the child from mating concerns, which is consistent with how we train noobs everywhere. We don't be givin' you the source code for the compiler during the "Write your first hello world" tutorial, for example.

Life is meaningless, or it's about mating, or it's about whatever bullshit you want. Have a nice day!

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