Having Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Having Kids

#71

Post by luckydata » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #48

scribu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how being selfish (i.e. wanting to do other things instead of taking care of them) makes you a better parent? It's not at all obvious.

To paraphrase Jordan Peterson: "No one ever walked into my psychology practice because their parents made them too emotionally independent." There are some parents out there who continually martyr themselves because they think it makes them a good person (I get 4 hours of sleep a night to make sure my kids have everything! I'm awesome!) but are in fact overinvolved and setting a bad example for the kid by not taking…

American parenting is a cancer. I was raised in Europe and had a kid in California, I hate how most kids are raised here and I hate the expectations put on parents. Most people think you gotta stop having fun, you can’t go out because kids and you have to constantly hover them. I took my son out when he was 5 days old and I brought him everywhere since. He knows he needs to be quiet when we go in public and we will not be listening to him if he tries to interrupt our conversations without asking politely. He’s completely fine and well adjusted and the teachers love him.

If you want to raise your kids well, stop treating them like they are a rare Chinese vase and they’ll be just fine.

Re: Having Kids

#72

Post by danarmak » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

haberman wrote: post #43

As someone who has wrestled a lot with the question of whether I ever want kids, I've sought out data. One thing I came across was this: https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se... > Adults with children are 3.6 times more likely to tell Google they regret their decision than are adults without children. I'd be curious if others have data on this. I'm especially interested in how many people have…

One possible confounder is that having children is a pretty much irreversible step. Whereas many people who don't have children might choose to have them later. So they regret their choice less, because it's a less final choice.

Re: Having Kids

#73

Post by jaimeyap » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #23

The decision to have kids is a lot like the decision to continue living. There is no logical basis for it. Or rather, any latticework of logic you erect to justify this choice is based on a foundation that has nothing to do with reason. It is an emotional and spiritual desire to live and love, and give more life and more love to the world. That's why I when see people engage in complex rational calculations about the…

> There is no logical basis for it. Or rather, any latticework of logic you erect to justify this choice is based on a foundation that has nothing to do with reason.

Any formal system is going to be based upon some set of axioms. You can't apply reason without some foundational choices (ie. your axioms).

The bright line you are looking for is a lot fuzzier than it seems at first glance.

If you take as axiomatic that "the human race surviving is a good thing we should work towards". Having kids becomes an exceptionally rational thing for people to do.

Re: Having Kids

#74

Post by koboll » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

mwcampbell wrote: post #12

I wonder if the same chemical switch that he talks about gets flipped if you adopt a child, or marry a single parent and thus become a step-parent. If so, I wonder how young the child has to be for that to happen.

If it's chemically-based, maybe it can be induced.

I wonder - and I'm being serious here, although this could certainly be a terrible idea for various reasons - what would happen if, say, a low dose of MDMA or similar were administered to new parents when they first began bonding with their child. Surely a spike of serotonin and oxytocin plays a role in the physiology of parental attachment? Perhaps guaranteeing such a spike could have significant long-term effects by helping to cement this bond?

Re: Having Kids

#75

Post by jefftk » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

"Partly, and I won't deny it, this is because of serious chemical changes that happened almost instantly when our first child was born. It was like someone flipped a switch. I suddenly felt protective not just toward our child, but toward all children."

This, almost exactly, happened to me. I wasn't interested in babies, and then suddenly my newborn baby in particular and babies in general were amazing and precious.

Re: Having Kids

#76

Post by OnlineGladiator » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #57

nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Out of curiosity, how old are you? I was much more selfish and 'go go go' in my 20s. In my mid thirties now and mellowed a lot. I find parenting a joy now, but think I would have hated it 10 years ago.

I'm in my 30s and much more selfish than I was in my 20s. Everybody is different.

Re: Having Kids

#77

Post by honkycat » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

I'm not knocking Paul Graham or anyone who did well for themselves. But comparing your experience with that of Paul Graham, one of the richest people on the planet, is pointless. The wealthy live on a completely different PLANET than you or me.

Of course he enjoys having kids, he has NONE of the stress of supporting himself and his family.

His kids are going to have private tutors and house cleaners.

He won't sweat the cost of daycare. He will never have to worry about paying for college.

He is going to have a nanny whenever he needs someone to watch the kids.

He will never have to worry about making rent for the rest of his life.

He will still be able to pursue whatever he dreams of with basically 0 risk.

Re: Having Kids

#78

Post by jccalhoun » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

I don't like kids. I don't want kids. I'm 46 and single and I don't want to date someone with kids. It drastically reduces my dating pool but I'm willing to live with that.

There are enough people on earth as it is. I don't feel like I need to increase that number.

Re: Having Kids

#79

Post by shurcooL » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

  * less productive
  * less time for your ideas
  * less ambitious

These points may or may not be true depending over what timeframe you measure.

If it’s your own lifetime, sure. If you measure your productivity over the next 300 years as what you plus your transitive offspring accomplish, it’s possible having kids is a huge boost to your aggregated productivity.

Re: Having Kids

#80

Post by nickreese » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #57

nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Out of curiosity, how old are you? I was much more selfish and 'go go go' in my 20s. In my mid thirties now and mellowed a lot. I find parenting a joy now, but think I would have hated it 10 years ago.

Mid thirties.