Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're effectively describing trickle-down economics. "Help out rich people so they pay more taxes which will trickle down to poor people" That's not a real thing. The economy is trickle-up. Income inequality is widening. San francisco has the worst income inequality of any city in a developed country: top 1% earn 44x more than bottom 99%. The number of home owners has actually decreased in the last ten years. Cost o…
I'm a social democrat. My point is that we shouldn't be dependent on the whims of private companies feeling charitable or not. If society needs money from them, then that's what taxes are for.
What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
161–170 of 244 posts
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American political left would gain immensely and lose exactly nothing by being less condescending. The first line of argument they should abandon is telling people they are voting against their own interests. It’s remarkably insulting, and arrogantly presupposes you know know better what another person’s interests are.
I usually see the argument "you're voting against your own interests" from the free-market, libertarianish side. You may be right that it's often viewed as condescending, but I'm not sure what the alternative would be since the proper pursuit of 'enlightened self-interest' is the whole point of that sort of politics.
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#163I love how inmates get a better education and more support from tech companies than the adults who live in the bay area. The bay area has the worst income inequality of anywhere in any developed country. Bootcamps are a scam and cost tens of thousands of dollars and yet inmates, people convicted of severe crimes, are treated to free education. From a business standpoint this makes more sense because inmates have no b…
I'm a bit unclear on your perspective here. Are you saying teaching inmates is wrong because they've apparently lost their chance at success in life because of their "severe crimes"? Regardless of that perspective, here's a truth: most inmates will be released at some point. As a matter of fact, alot of the inequality you reference is a result of those with criminal backgrounds and the socioeconomic conditions that g…
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests. I’ve seen this on HN several times, and it always cracks me up. The condescension isn't dripping. It’s running in torrents. You think the reason they won’t vote the way you want is because they don’t know what’s good for themselves. You might want to consider an alternate: they don’t want someone like you deciding what’s good for…
I feel like you're referring to the seam of high individualism in American culture. imho, that's the lie. And if we don't come to see that, it might be our collective undoing. There's a reason our highest form of punishment is to isolate. It's not our functional unit of existing. To truly isolate us from others is to punish us perhaps worse than death. So what makes people think the individual should be our highest f…
And if some people want to split off and do something different, diversity is a good thing too.
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> blaming Slack and co. is silly. It’s not their job, and it shouldn’t be: you don’t want the institutions with profit motive to be the ones handling charitable works. I’d agree with what you said because the reason you gave seems strong & compelling to me; the idea that profit motive might corrupt charity if in charge. On the other hand, I dislike the idea that only government should “handle” social responsibility.…
CSR is fine and good when you're talking about behaving in an ethical manner in the course of their business. But there isn't really any reason to want Slack and co in charge of solving housing or health care. It's not their responsibility, it's not their expertise. Expecting every single company to be randomly contributing to a dozen different societal problems outside the scope of their business is a recipe for sca…
Is this really a black and white issue, do or don’t? I don’t feel that way at all.
Do you think private companies can “contribute” to the solutions alongside the government and the public, by being open to hiring non traditional workers, by having support programs that help people keep their jobs? Can companies encourage and support the government’s support programs, by enrolling the government’s help and joining together to pay for them, by writing corporate policy to foster non-traditional workers, by making work allowances for people who need more help?
> when the government has vastly more authority to act
I don’t agree with this framing. Large and small companies get local zoning laws changed all the time. If Slack was lobbying for zoning regulations near it’s business, it’s entirely likely they can, in fact, get them changed. Companies can, and do routinely, suggest regulation changes, participate in policy making, and the government listens and routinely acts on those requests, and involves private companies in the legislation process. When companies band together to get zoning changed, it happens even faster.
The government does not really have that much more “authority” than the rest of us when it comes to the basics of taking care of each other. This isn’t really an authority issue, it’s an issue of whether we care and take action, it’s an issue of what our goals are as a society, it’s an issue of whether we view it as our collective responsibility, or someone else’s responsibility. If we all think it’s someone else’s responsibility, and we do nothing and think of the government as the only solution, then we not only end up with a crappy solution, we are ceding our own authority as well.
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
> convince people to either not vote - or to vote against their personal best interests. I’ve seen this on HN several times, and it always cracks me up. The condescension isn't dripping. It’s running in torrents. You think the reason they won’t vote the way you want is because they don’t know what’s good for themselves. You might want to consider an alternate: they don’t want someone like you deciding what’s good for…
What approach would you suggest? What I mean is that any attempt to change policy/society/laws/government innately involves deciding that something would be good for society as a whole and then attempting to get laws put in place that force it to happen. Therefore, your post doesn't seem to be actionable since it basically boils down to "don't do anything".
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your logical error is assuming that it’s so obvious what “vot[ing] against [one’s] own interests” means. Maybe a stable free market government with a strong cultural and religious framework is in everyone’s interest, and the “massive industry” exists to convince people of that fact?
Actually, this is obvious. Voter votes for person who says they will do X. Voter doesn't understand the implications of X. Person gets elected, does X, fallout ensues. Voter now complaining about the consequences. This is a very obvious factual observation of voters voting against their own interests. It's not something up for debate.
Because people love it when their representative brings home the pork but they hate it when the other guy does it.
It's not possible for people in one district to elect a representative who could individually eliminate all wasteful government programs, but it is possible for them to send in somebody who will at least bring them back a proportionate share of the loot from the heist. Is that not rational behavior absent some coordination mechanism to get all the other districts to stop electing kleptocrats at the same time?
Maybe better would be to vote for someone willing to do that while also pushing for structural change to remove those incentives, but that's assuming there is any candidate running with that position.
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#168I mean at the end of the day this is just a way to get cheap labor.
I'm an ex-con developer. To be fair, my dev roots go back to childhood. I make around a quarter million a year in a mid-range cost of living city in the mid-west US.
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a bit unclear on your perspective here. Are you saying teaching inmates is wrong because they've apparently lost their chance at success in life because of their "severe crimes"? Regardless of that perspective, here's a truth: most inmates will be released at some point. As a matter of fact, alot of the inequality you reference is a result of those with criminal backgrounds and the socioeconomic conditions that g…
The entire point of prison is to remove them from society. Why are we spending more resources on prisoners than people who've never commited a crime?
Re: What Happens After Prisoners Learn to Code?
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your logical error is assuming that it’s so obvious what “vot[ing] against [one’s] own interests” means. Maybe a stable free market government with a strong cultural and religious framework is in everyone’s interest, and the “massive industry” exists to convince people of that fact?
This was like the archetype of a partisan argument. You two managed to go through why the sides don't like each other's worldview or the way it's expressed, and then stopped the second it came to discussing any real world issues. And I mean both of you as well, you could've given examples and data about why your system might be in anyone's interest but you didn't and it would've been the perfect time for him to reply…
Partisan arguments tend to go poorly on nice civil web forums, and I'd expect to attract the attention of the moderators if I were to start one.