Having Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Having Kids

#81

Post by ajross » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

Can you elaborate? What exactly is wrong with parents talking to you about their kids? Kids are a big part of our lives. We're telling you about our life.

I think what you're saying is that you want us to be interested in different stuff, more along the lines of what you're interested in, because you're not interested in kids. That doesn't sound so much like a social problem to me as a simple personality mismatch.

Re: Having Kids

#82

Post by falcolas » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

Having kids don't automatically make you a better person. Anecdotally, most of the people I know are the same after having kids as they were before having kids. The only difference is that they're working an extra job.

The ones who coo and cuddle with their kids are those who would coo and cuddle any child they come into contact with. Those who are patient with their kids were patient before having children.

The chemical high from having a child doesn't necessarily change who you are. If anything, it simply amplifies existing traits by putting you through a high pressure, long-term project.

The biggest (positive) child-related change I've noticed? The sudden and prolonged surge of happiness when those children are out of the house. Everything else tends to be the effects of time blunting the worst of the negatives.

As a point of reference, I have no children of my own, but I had two teenage girls adopt me as their father. I spend several days a week tutoring and helping them. I get the high of watching them grow into themselves without having to live with them.

Re: Having Kids

#83

Post by axaxs » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #76

axaxs wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how old are you? I was much more selfish and 'go go go' in my 20s. In my mid thirties now and mellowed a lot. I find parenting a joy now, but think I would have hated it 10 years ago.

I'm in my 30s and much more selfish than I was in my 20s. Everybody is different.

For sure. I wasn't intending to give life advice, just a personal account for younger folks who regret/are afraid of parenting. It's easy to change without realizing when it happened!

Re: Having Kids

#84

Post by lallysingh » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

bcrosby95 wrote: post #21

nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

Yeah I didn't have that instant flip. But after about 6-9 months, when they become increasingly interactive I started to enjoy it more. Before then it was more a sense of duty to help this tiny thing survive.

Yeah. As babies they're not terribly interesting. Around 1 years old they're at about my level.

Re: Having Kids

#85

Post by markus_zhang » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

It's basically two worlds:

People who have kids (and people who really want kids) and people who don't (and people who don't want). They can't understand each other and most of one camp think the other camp dull and crazy.

It's just pov, and yeah, I keep distances from people with kids when the kids are around, because very possible they will leave their kids to me to gain a couple of hours to themselves.

Re: Having Kids

#86

Post by notauser » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

It's hard not to talk about the most dominant thing in your life, and only a few people have the skill of being genuinely interested in the priorities of other people.

Some people are boring about their hobbies, some are boring about people, some are boring about work, some are boring about their kids.

If you find the conversation boring just remember they are probably just as bored at you droning on about blockchain or whatever it is you are keen to talk about.

Re: Having Kids

#87

Post by burlesona » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

I agree what you’re saying is a problem, but it isn’t universal. Anecdotally the trend seems to match living preferences: parents in central cities tend to be less myopic about their kids, parents in the suburbs more so.

For my wife and I, the book “Bringing Up Bebe” was really influential in how we thought about kids before and after we had them. It’s a perspective shift kind of like this: your newborn human can’t talk, can’t move, doesn’t have any hobbies, interests, or friends. Rather than bend your life around that, why not invite this child into your life, to join in your hobbies, meet your friends, etc.

That may sound silly but it’s actually a pretty influential idea to latch on to. We don’t have a schedule wrapped around our kids, or weekends wrapped around our kids. We go places we want to go, and do things we want to do, and include the kids and tell them what we’re doing and why and invite them to join the fun. The great thing about kids is they’re pretty much up for anything, so they usually love this and jump in :)

I think, as an adult, you also have to make a conscious choice to keep up your independent life.

Losing your independence is something that happens to people for various reasons - you see it sometimes when people get married, and then they withdraw from all their old social life and kind of retreat into each other. It’s a lot of pressure to be someone’s entire world... I haven’t seen many of those couples stay happy.

I think that’s the part of having kids that’s hardest. Because they do have needs and do have to be accommodated, it can be easy to just worry about taking care of them and give up on everything else because it’s not as easy as it used to be to maintain your independent life. But it’s a choice you make, and in my experience it’s deeply worthwhile.

Re: Having Kids

#88

Post by haberman » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #66

haberman wrote: post #43

As someone who has wrestled a lot with the question of whether I ever want kids, I've sought out data. One thing I came across was this: https://www.salon.com/2017/05/09/google-confessional-your-se... > Adults with children are 3.6 times more likely to tell Google they regret their decision than are adults without children. I'd be curious if others have data on this. I'm especially interested in how many people have…

I endorse looking at data like this, but I think there is much better way to estimate how kids would affect your happiness: do activities that put you in extensive contact with kids, e.g., volunteer to baby sit for your friends/family, offer to tutor/advise neighborhood kids, and coach youth sports. (In addition to learning about yourself, you're helping out parents and kids when you do this, so win-win.) Obviously t…

Yes, I agree with that; my experiences lead me to strongly believe that 24/7 parenting is not for me. Right now, I like kids in small doses.

The question I'm attempting to answer with data is: how likely is it that I would experience the "switch flip" that Paul describes here, and would it be enough to overcome the feelings I have about it now? If the data strongly indicated that most parents experience this kind of "switch flip", it would make me more inclined.

Re: Having Kids

#89

Post by daenz » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #32

daenz wrote: post #13

>Having kids is one of those intense types of experience that are hard to imagine unless you've had them. But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats. But it is, because your entire biology has evolved for billions of years with the sole purpose of reproducing effectively. No amount of "I feel like I enjoy it" negates that it is programmed into you as an organ…

Do you like food? Or sex? Or being at a comfortable temperature? Because those are all programmed into you as an organism, too. Do you enjoy social status? Accomplishing goals? Material prosperity? Same deal. You are an organism and all of your root-level desires and goals are programmed into you by an evolutionary process of self-replicating genes and ideas. You’re not an immaterial ghost of rationality haunting a m…

My point is not: "it's biologically programmed, therefore bad," as you seem to be suggesting. My point is: "it's biologically programmed, so it's silly to say that it isn't just because you enjoy it."

Re: Having Kids

#90

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

I could say a lot about having kids, but I'll keep it to this:

The fundamentally most powerful thing I feel about having kids is faith. I have faith now. An unwavering, unquestionable understanding of my purpose and direction on this planet. It makes so many questions so easy to answer.