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Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

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Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#131

Post by Iv »

dmurray wrote: post #93
Iv wrote: post #68

I am wondering where sulphur-crested cockatoo are on the scale. Before seeing some in freedom up close in Australia, I never realized they actually could grab objects with their claws like they are hands and put them in their mouth. They seemed very smart to me. I wonder if they lose to crow only because they are less prevalent around most labs in the world...

Parrots get mentioned all the time in animal intelligence research. Normally the experiments take different forms: you keep one parrot in captivity and teach it to speak, while you observe the behaviour of groups of crows in the wild.

What surprised me witht he cuckatoo was its size. I think typical parrots are smaller. Now I know the size-intelligence relationship is very tenuous, but within a similar order, it may have a value?

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#132

Post by boomboomsubban »

coldtea wrote: post #113
boomboomsubban wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something displaying a certain behavior makes them seem like a certain race is racism, even if you don't find it offensive.

Irish are an ethnicity, not a race. They're the same race as I am (and probably the grandparent). And they make the same kind of jokes themselves all the time, like my people do the same kind of stereotype jokes for our own kind. It's only "racism" in the provincial US preoccupation that "everything said that touches on a population/ethnicity/race is racism". Not in the "X are inferior/KKK/etc" sense, which is what w…

>Irish are an ethnicity, not a race.

Racism is often considered antagonism based on race or ethnicity. The terms are very closely linked, though it may have been better for me to say "ethnicity."

>Not in the "X are inferior/KKK/etc" sense, which is what we should be concerned with

So what grudges do you think the Irish held leading to this stereotype?

I don't get the rest of your argument. It seems to be "my country doesn't have a problem with racism so racist comments are fine."

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#133

Post by circlefavshape »

kingbirdy wrote: post #9
duelingjello wrote: post #4

Crows are social too, will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish. A crow once sneaked quite far into my mechanic's shop without being seen, got up on a rolling toolbox and stole a bag of sunflower seeds without being noticed. I found this because I saw a crow and their other crow buddies were having a sunflower seed party in the alley, and one of the mechanics lost their snack. Also, crows will remember i…

>will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish There's no need for this.

I'm Irish, and now I hold a grudge against you for taking offense on my behalf.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#134

Post by londons_explore »

philipov wrote: post #116
tempguy9999 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rabbits are prey animals. I don't think(?) crows are. Prey animals are wary and startle easily to reduce their chance of becoming lunch.

By that logic, they shouldn't be running towards the car that's gonna eat them.

Most fast animals can't change direction easily.

Running in almost any direction is an effective means of escape.

Cars are much wider than most predators, meaning many directions end up being bad choices.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#135

Post by sean-duffy »

SiVal wrote: post #20

We have crows and jackrabbits in our neighborhood. You drive down the road toward a bunch (I think they prefer the term "murder") of crows having a meeting in the middle of the road. They'll eventually start nonchalantly strolling to the side at a calm, measured pace perfectly timed to just barely get out of the way as you pass and stroll back again, no feathers ruffled. Jackrabbits will be sitting safely in the gras…

Pigeons do the exact same though, I never slow down for them because I know they always fly out of the way just in time, even when it looks like you're about to roll over them.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#137

Post by londons_explore »

clarry wrote: post #119
orthoxerox wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they know how to use ATMs

I think I saw a video of some bird puzzle where they have to tap the right thing with their beak to get a treat. It doesn't seem too far removed from entering a PIN code. I bet you could teach them to do that. Also, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they would learn to insert a credit card into the machine given that they're good at manipulating sticks and stones and putting them into places.

Tapping buttons on a vending machine and then tapping a contactless bank card seems like the most promising route for a crow to buy food.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#138

Post by ajuc »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #11

They also like to annoy other animals. I have seen it now a few times that a crow or a group of crows would approach a dog from behind and nip their tail or butt. When the dog turns around the crow will jump back a little and pretend it has nothing to do with this. When the dog looks away they will do it again. I have seen similar behavior with swans. When my dog chases they get out of the way but only the minimum ne…

Sometimes they do this to steal winter fur for nests.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#139

Post by dta3456 »

When I was a child, I'd spend a lot of time at my grandfathers farm, and one summer he took in an injured crow that hurt its wing.

For some strange reason, he named all of his animals Jack, cats, dogs and now crows. So we'd go out in the morning and my grandfather would call out "Jack" and the Dog would come running down the yard, and then next thing you'd see the crow hopping down the yard after the dog. It would arrive and wait for him to pick it up with his hand and it would sit on his shoulder while he fed it nuts and seeds. Jack the dog and Jack the crow would also hang out together and play. It also would be very wary of other visitors and knew to leave the house if it was going to go to the toilet.

This went on for maybe a full year until it decided to just fly off, but throughout that time it really opened my eyes to how smart animals could actually be, and is a really fond memory of mine.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#140

Post by boomboomsubban »

philipov wrote: post #121
boomboomsubban wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something displaying a certain behavior makes them seem like a certain race is racism, even if you don't find it offensive.

No, that's stereotyping. Racism is systematic denial of opportunity to people on the basis of their ancestry.

Personally, I would consider your definition "institutional racism," and both it and stereotyping would be forms of racism.
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