Live data from Hacker News

Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

bbc.com

11–20 of 443 posts

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#11
They also like to annoy other animals. I have seen it now a few times that a crow or a group of crows would approach a dog from behind and nip their tail or butt. When the dog turns around the crow will jump back a little and pretend it has nothing to do with this. When the dog looks away they will do it again. I have seen similar behavior with swans. When my dog chases they get out of the way but only the minimum needed.

Very smart but obnoxious in a way.

Just found this on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Y0xwX5iOFok

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this article explain why?

noisy, attack people without a reason, kill other smaller birds, eat their eggs and nestling and take over their spot. I used to live in a neighbourhood with such a beautiful birds, now Crows took over an all I near in the morning is CRAAW CRAAW

Live in Davis next to an active freight train track that shakes the ground and tens of thousands of crows landing in the trees in the evening, hundreds per tree, then let me know how you like that. :)

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#13

Crows are social too, will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish. A crow once sneaked quite far into my mechanic's shop without being seen, got up on a rolling toolbox and stole a bag of sunflower seeds without being noticed. I found this because I saw a crow and their other crow buddies were having a sunflower seed party in the alley, and one of the mechanics lost their snack. Also, crows will remember i…

>will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish There's no need for this.

I can confirm the quote. Source? I am part Irish.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#14
This article focuses mostly on problem solving, planning, and tool use as the primary hallmarks of intelligence. But what problem does writing a poem solve? Do you have to be intelligent to write a great poem? What about the intelligence need to compose a great whale song[1]? Or paint a great painting?

These are things not measured on intelligence tests and that don't fit well in to scientific experiments because they can't be "objectively" judged or quantified, but my intuition is that they do in fact have to do with intelligence -- just not the sort of intelligence that problem solving, planning, and tool use demonstrate. Though they may require problem solving, planning, or tool use to accomplish, there seems to be something else going on there.

I'm reminded of the Douglas Adams quote: "... on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much--the wheel, New York, wars and so on--whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man--for precisely the same reasons."

[1] - ...if such criteria could be applied to them -- we don't know, and that's part of the point. If we don't know how can we judge one animal who does one thing to be "smarter" than another who does something else?

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#15
I really wish we had better definitions for "smart", "cognition", and "intelligence." With our current definitions, all comparisons are purely subjective. Maybe crows are the "smartest" today. Tomorrow it'll be dolphins, parrots, elephants, pigs, or cephalopods. Who knows?

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#16

Looking at the complexity and size of whale and dolphin brains, i suspect they are at least the equal of crows.

Agreed. Birds have an inheren limit on head weight, which limits their brain size. They do manage to use what they have quite well (parrots are also remarkable in that regard), but the limit is there. Ultimately intelligence is a tough nut to crack for such a stupid and limited thing as evolution: some have a big brain but no hands, some have hands but cannot have a big brain because space is used for something else (e.g. bears), some have hands and space for brains but cannot increase head weight because not erect walking etc. Once you're erect, there's a tendency for arms to atrophy (think T-rex and ostriches). Jaws and the nasal cavity tend to take up space too, so an intelligent species needs to have weak olfactory sense and be a meat/fruit feeder. It's a miracle that a species like ours could combine all the necessary, quite fragile, ingredients to develop intelligence.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#18

They also like to annoy other animals. I have seen it now a few times that a crow or a group of crows would approach a dog from behind and nip their tail or butt. When the dog turns around the crow will jump back a little and pretend it has nothing to do with this. When the dog looks away they will do it again. I have seen similar behavior with swans. When my dog chases they get out of the way but only the minimum ne…

They also do this to cats, which is much more dangerous. There's a video with a cat catching a bird (not a crow) that did this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nfIQifAcm0g

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#19

Crows are social too, will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish. A crow once sneaked quite far into my mechanic's shop without being seen, got up on a rolling toolbox and stole a bag of sunflower seeds without being noticed. I found this because I saw a crow and their other crow buddies were having a sunflower seed party in the alley, and one of the mechanics lost their snack. Also, crows will remember i…

>will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish There's no need for this.

[flagged]

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#20
We have crows and jackrabbits in our neighborhood. You drive down the road toward a bunch (I think they prefer the term "murder") of crows having a meeting in the middle of the road. They'll eventually start nonchalantly strolling to the side at a calm, measured pace perfectly timed to just barely get out of the way as you pass and stroll back again, no feathers ruffled.

Jackrabbits will be sitting safely in the grass on the side of the road, see you coming, watch until you're about to pass, have a panic attack, and sprint in front of your car just as you pass in order to "escape". I never slow down for crows. They know what they're doing. I slow down for my fellow mammals, jackrabbits, because they're nitwits. All I can say, looking at these birds and these rabbits, is: that asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs and took out the competition sure was a lucky break for us.

Post reply on HN