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Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

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Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#171

Post by organsnyder »

ctdonath wrote: post #166
burfog wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is mainly a density issue. Most people don't like density. At an ordinary population density, supermarkets are about 2 to 5 miles from each other, which is probably 3 to 7 miles by road. Large stores require many customers in order to remain in business. If supermarkets are closer, then they lose efficiency. Prices must be higher. Variety drops; you'll get just 2 types of cheese and 1 type of apple if the stores…

Well put. Couple days ago I literally counted >100 varieties of marinara spaghetti sauce in the store. There's no way a walking-distance grocery is going to carry anywhere close to that (ripple effect on to all the people employed in making each specialty) AND do so at Walmart prices. I live close to the grocery, and there's still no way I'm going to carry supplies for 4 that far (recall as a child doing similar with…

Funny... I prefer to avoid the big stores precisely because they have so many varieties of basically the same product. I prefer to get groceries at a local small grocery store or Aldi—they have 95% of what I need.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#172

Post by organsnyder »

ctdonath wrote: post #74
organsnyder wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you have those meetings? If it's once a week or less, you'd probably be better off with a carshare rather than owning a private vehicle. No single mode of transportation solves every use-case. My car is suboptimal when I'm going downtown, as well as for trips longer than 300 miles or so.

Except ... cars do solve every use case. Suboptimal, yes, but I can get whoever & whatever I need to practically every square kilometer of this country (4200 x 2500) within 50 hours (5400km). Public transport simply can't, because it can't have stations within anywhere close to each of 10,500,000 square kilometers - and even where it does, I'm waiting (maybe hours) for service, and am severely limited in cargo option…

By that notion, walking also solves every use case except for long-distance travel. I can walk about 150 miles in 50 hours. Add a hand cart for getting groceries.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#173

Post by AnimalMuppet »

greenonions wrote: post #161
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Criticizing cars is the only way to wake people up to the damage they have caused in our society. It's a way to make you look like an out-of-touch loony, who therefore gets ignored. If you want to reduce car use in the US, dial down the rhetoric, and work on increasing the convenience of not using a car. You're going to win more hearts and minds by making available something better than you are by constantly carpin…

Hard to mince words regarding the statistics on cars. You read and responded to the comment, so they clearly drive engagement. Walking, biking, taking the bus, carpooling are incredibly convenient for anyone willing to try, and I certainly support efforts to improve the facilities for these at all opportunities. There are uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed about cars, however, and you don't get anywhere b…

Yes, because your rhetoric is counterproductive. People don't like being yelled at, and people don't like feeling forced. To get change, you need to persuade them to pull in your direction, not to give you the finger.

Look, you need to say that we can prevent these deaths. You really do. But don't say it the way you did. You don't get buy-in that way.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#174

Post by AnimalMuppet »

FussyZeus wrote: post #37
benrbray wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. I don't quite understand your point about the "technological and class di…

> America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. Then let's discuss some realistic solutions: Outside of densely populat…

> There is simply no mass transit option that can equate this, end of.

Sure there is - for some situations. There is something called "rapid transit". The working definition is "faster than by car". You actually have that in a few places - Chicago, or New York, for instance. But for it to work, you need a couple of things. It has to go many of the places that people want to go. It has to be very frequent - so frequent that you don't check the schedule. And it has to be somewhat slow to use the car.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#175

Post by tomcooks »

microtherion wrote: post #162
onreact wrote: post #90

Yeah, I live in Berlin and we have an increasing number of car free zones here where people can move around without being afraid of getting killed. Even children play outside again in such areas without risking their life. Not to mention the lack of noise, pollution and clogged up space with parking cars. Cafes thrive and people stroll around to spend their time and money. Businesses return from the outskirts etc. It…

I would picture a Berlin drug dealer as being perfectly comfortable riding a bicycle.

Most street drug dealers use bicycles, EU and abroad.

More freedom of movement, no license nor plate.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#176

Post by ourlordcaffeine »

onreact wrote: post #90

Yeah, I live in Berlin and we have an increasing number of car free zones here where people can move around without being afraid of getting killed. Even children play outside again in such areas without risking their life. Not to mention the lack of noise, pollution and clogged up space with parking cars. Cafes thrive and people stroll around to spend their time and money. Businesses return from the outskirts etc. It…

Interesting.

Whenever there is talk about pedestrianizing a street in my town, the usual suspects immediately claim that this will make local businesses go bankrupt since "people can't drive up to them". Never mind that stopping isn't allowed anyway on those streets. I don't understand the logic.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#177

Post by joejerryronnie »

abyssin wrote: post #43
agensaequivocum wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really when you have 5-7+ kids.

When you have 5-7+ kids, you don't have them all at once. By the time you're having the last ones, the eldest can cycle on their own.

The anti-quint/sext/septuplet bias in this comment is astounding.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#178

Post by 52-6F-62 »

ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #176
onreact wrote: post #90

Yeah, I live in Berlin and we have an increasing number of car free zones here where people can move around without being afraid of getting killed. Even children play outside again in such areas without risking their life. Not to mention the lack of noise, pollution and clogged up space with parking cars. Cafes thrive and people stroll around to spend their time and money. Businesses return from the outskirts etc. It…

Interesting. Whenever there is talk about pedestrianizing a street in my town, the usual suspects immediately claim that this will make local businesses go bankrupt since "people can't drive up to them". Never mind that stopping isn't allowed anyway on those streets. I don't understand the logic.

Toronto?

We literally had an outspoken opponent of a traffic reduction program (not even totally car-free) build an ice statue that flipped the bird to passers-by in protest. In the end I think he cost himself business because of his attitude.

You're not alone in not understanding. The program (called the King St Pilot Project here in TO) has made taking that street as a transit user and pedestrian far more palatable.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#179

Post by krschultz »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #17
Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

Even having public transport doesn't mean the car is useless. Public transport fails if you have a lot of groceries to deliver, or some big products. Also public transport often takes much longer than a car, because it's stopping at every little stop, while a car can go directly, or even take a shortcut in some cases.

Does it? I cook almost every night and managed to survive without a car for 6 years in Manhattan. Yes, you go to the grocery store more often because you can only take home what you can carry. But the grocery store was a block from my apartment, it took less time to do a round trip there on foot than anywhere I've lived in the suburbs with a car.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#180

Post by AnimalMuppet »

bitwize wrote: post #91
ConceitedCode wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misleading to most people. The US census counts the suburbs as urban. I don't believe most people referring to urban areas are referring to people in the suburbs. "To qualify as an urban area, the territory identified according to criteria must encompass at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters." https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/about/faq/...

Ban suburbs, too. They basically mainly exist to give white people a place to move to, to get away from pesky minorities.

First, not everything is about race. Some people may move to the suburbs to get away from minorities, but not everyone does.

Second, you want to force us to live the way you think we should? Feel free to get lost.

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