Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#231

Post by paulgerhardt » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

foobar_ wrote: post #128

Unless this is going to transfer ethercoins, this is a SCAM. They are trying to build a bank on top of smartcoins. The functionality seems like that of a promissory note. As they keep the kong coins in their kong bang ... they will try to make money using the volatility or something.

The functionality is basically exactly like a promissory note. A big difference is every note stores its face value token in its own smart contract. The only thing which can claim the funds stored in that contract is the key self-generated on the secure element. You can manually validate that key was self-generated (and not say programmed on there by the manufacturer). The paper [1] details all this. You can go and make your own using the code we've released on etherscan and github[2].

It is completely unlike other things that have come before because it only stores keys on the secure element and only stores code in the EVM.

We're putting this out there as proof of concept. We're selling a limited number as validation of the idea and because we believe in shipping product in a space notorious for shipping vaporware. There is no ICO. It is technology demonstration first and foremost.

[1] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmRNRCocj4PwKMXrd1jeUGw7ASQSuEk7BDJu5Ks...

[2] https://github.com/kong-org/defi_hackathon

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#232

Post by api » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:09 AM UTC

paulgerhardt wrote: post #118

manigandham wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're handing off physically then just use cash. How is this any better? The exit to real currency will always reveal Kong transactions at some point. Real cash is more anonymous because it's seamlessly transacted everywhere.

Current cash instruments are centralized.

So I can print my own Kong?

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#233

Post by cptaj » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:10 AM UTC

CptFribble wrote: post #225

If I can't take your space money down to the diner and buy a plate of bacon and eggs with it, then as far as I'm concerned it's not real. There's a chicken-and-egg problem that I think goes missed or unmentioned by all these crypto startups trying to piecemeal a "solution" to the centralized banking problem: in the monetary system, individuals have absolutely no power, because we're at the bottom of the hierarchy of…

It goes unmentioned. Definitely not missed.

But its hard to get funding or user buy-in if you say that.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#234

Post by ccamrobertson » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:11 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #215

ccamrobertson wrote: post #2

Hi folks, I’m one of the contributors at Kong — https://kong.cash/ . Kong is a physical cryptocurrency that looks, feels and works like traditional cash. You can think of it as an ultra-secure, time locked cryptocurrency wallet with a fixed face value — no one can access the token except for the holder of the note after a period of several years. It consists of a secure element and NFC chips mounted on a flexible PCB…

This doesn't make any sense. Can only preordained organizations print the notes? Then we’re back to centralized cash. Can anyone print the notes? Then they can also print duplicates. Do we verify electronically when we transact to prevent that? Then we're back to electronic transactions. What am I missing? How is this not fatally flawed?

Today, Kong's printing is centralized to the Kong project (similar to a premine) because we cannot guarantee that someone else will use a secure element which conforms to section 2 of the paper (which would preclude the creation of duplicates). If anyone else wants to print Kong, and we can verify they source a secure element conforming to section 2 of the paper, then we'll share "printing rights" with them. The Kong recurring lockdrop, section 4.2, is outside of our control and open to anyone.

We start to explore how someone could participate in printing Kong freely, without our influence, in section 5.1 but there are massive unsolved challenges to tackle here.

There is a significant distinction between verifying a note electronically and conducting an electronic transaction. The former can be done in an offline fashion; the latter cannot and, in the case of credit card networks, Ethereum and, Bitcoin, incurs a fee.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#235

Post by tossAfterUsing » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:13 AM UTC

taywrobel wrote: post #200

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #198

Kong seems worthless to me. ETH has demonstrated it's not a reliable store of value, if the DAO hack can just be reversed. Instead of garbage paper tokens, here's a thing that already exists: ... can be used just like cash ... isn't limited to a particular denomination ... value can be added at any time ... fits in your butt https://opendime.com/

Can be used just like cash? Apart from the needing to wait for up to an hour to get confirmation of payment. And having fees on every single purchase. Bitcoin is not currency. You even said it in your critique of ETH- “it's not a reliable store of value” Currency is NOT intended to store value. It’s intended to facilitate the transfer of value. In that regard, etherium and bitcoin fail equally.

look, you clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about. you may very well disagree with me, and that's your prerogative.

cash has been variously shells, giant stones, glass beads, shiny metal, complicated paper, etc...

fundamental to the hand-to-hand nature of this Kong nonsense, is the feasibility to be transferred offline.

whatever Kong is, it's primary function will be a way to rip people off.

and taywrobel: as a side note, i realize my statement may appear unbelievably ironic to you. just know that's your problem and not mine.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#236

Post by tossAfterUsing » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:14 AM UTC

ududhdhd wrote: post #201

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #198

Kong seems worthless to me. ETH has demonstrated it's not a reliable store of value, if the DAO hack can just be reversed. Instead of garbage paper tokens, here's a thing that already exists: ... can be used just like cash ... isn't limited to a particular denomination ... value can be added at any time ... fits in your butt https://opendime.com/

That thing obviously cannot be used just like cash. Jesus how fucking dumb are you people

we people are incredibly dumb.

stick to your fiat bro, that's going to be the best store of whatever type of value you're creating.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#237

Post by paulgerhardt » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

CptFribble wrote: post #225

If I can't take your space money down to the diner and buy a plate of bacon and eggs with it, then as far as I'm concerned it's not real. There's a chicken-and-egg problem that I think goes missed or unmentioned by all these crypto startups trying to piecemeal a "solution" to the centralized banking problem: in the monetary system, individuals have absolutely no power, because we're at the bottom of the hierarchy of…

By that definition, any foreign currency isn't real.

I might suggest an alternate definition: Money is a transferable record of debt valid for a period of time and amongst a network of peers.

Generally we think of money as local to a country and its government. However, one could imagine a 'minimum viable money' that could work in a space as small as a table and with only a handful of people - and for the purposes of a game like Monopoly, while the game is ongoing the money in the game serves a real purpose. From there things get pretty blurry as any World of Warcraft or Eve player will tell you.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#238

Post by bunkydoo » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:22 AM UTC

I think in a big way this is necessary, this in essence makes crypto that is truly anonymous. If I slide a briefcase full of cash across the floor to someone - nobody knows that happened. Tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it essentially. If I send a bitcoin in the forest - well I damn well better hope I have an internet connection. The Brixton Pound is a very similar concept but for a much smaller market. I'm interested to see where it goes from the standpoint of the future of physical cash finding a place in a digital world - but it isn't without it's flaws.

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#239

Post by ahnick » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:23 AM UTC

seandougall wrote: post #224

rytill wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... would that not be cooler?

Programmable means something can have bugs. I prefer my celery bug-free.

You've obviously never had "ants on a log" before. :-)

Re: Show HN: Kong – Physical Cryptocurrency

#240

Post by darawk » Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

james_s_tayler wrote: post #185

darawk wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash is controlled by a central authority. Governments can print as much or as little of it as they want. Kong does not have this property.

Not having that property so far hasn't proved to be useful in the real world.

This is pretty clearly false. People use things with this property to hedge inflation risk all the time (e.g. gold).