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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#431

Post by richardw »

pfortuny wrote: post #57
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

It's an incredible contribution, but in general childrearing isn't a skill you'd use in other areas of work. So the time spent on it is wasted compared to the extra e.g. 5 years becoming more competitive.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#432

Post by dang »

tehjoker wrote: post #422
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

Women's introduction to the workforce was the right thing to happen but it fundamentally hurt labor and the "middle class". You can't double the supply without changing anything in the system and inflationary effects of dual income are ridiculous.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#433

Post by tehjoker »

dang wrote: post #432
tehjoker wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry... it is relevant to this case, but you're right that without further explanation it's too generic.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#434

Post by simoom22 »

kelnos wrote: post #171
wklauss wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are, even at a more local level. New York City, for example, has a free pre-k (4yo) program. But in order to be effective, some of these policies need to be applied nationwide. In other cases, state budgets are simply too constrained for them. Like someone said in the comments, this is a program that could paid itself with the income tax from both parents working, but in the US the majority of income tax goes to…

> Like someone said in the comments, this is a program that could paid itself with the income tax from both parents working That's a bit of a weird point to make, though. That income tax is already going toward paying for government programs. If you divert some of that to pay for early child care, some other programs will be left under- or unfunded.

The reality is that currency-issuing federal governments everywhere run perpetual deficits (and some economists argue they have no revenue constraints at all.) States can't do this.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#435

Post by decebalus1 »

godot wrote: post #305
decebalus1 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're talking temporary solutions. I was responding to permanent solutions.

I don't really know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, I misread your point. Nevermind, I thought you were talking about something else.

> What do you suggest is the solution then; other than making enough money / hitting the startup lottery jackpot and retiring before having kids?

Maybe not a popular opinion but I firmly believe that the state needs to use the parent's tax money into protecting it's newest citizen by providing generous paid time off to its caregivers. Lots of states in Europe do it successfully. The US implements some sort of social Darwinism in which the more well-off kids get either more facetime with their parents or higher quality care.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#436

Post by giarc »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #404
kelnos wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is claiming that paying that is easy for everyone, merely that taking care of someone for 9 hours a day, including meals, for $40/day is actually ridiculously cheap. I can't think of many (any?) services I could pay for that would cost a mere $4/hr for labor+materials.

Shame the person earning that can’t afford their own childcare.

You'd actually be surprised that most at home daycare providers choose that profession. Most typically have their own child and decide to also take in a few other children to make extra money. I ran a startup in this field and worked with many dayhome providers. Some do it as their career, some do it for a few years while their children are young and they would like to stay home and be with them.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#437

Post by Dove »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #343
Dove wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced the isolated stay at home parent model is not normal human behavior, but a pathology of our particular society which represents an unreasonable expectation derived from an excessive commitment to individualism and independence. It is not psychologically reasonable to expect one person to care for children all day every day. It is not historically or broadly culturally normal. It is not healthy for eith…

This is a weird comment that, in my experience, doesn't represent the reality of today's stay-at-home parents. I'd love to see hard data on this, but let me share my anecdotes in response to the middle paragraph here. My older sister has been a stay at home mother for almost a decade, so I'll share my observations from being an uncle: > It is normal for children to be cared for by many adults throughout the day, from…

Your experience sounds lovely. I think you may have misinterpreted my frustration with the standard experience and expectation of stay at home parenting as advocating for widespread use of daycare. I do think that option is a little closer to normalcy, but I also think it is still not very close. I suppose it depends on how it is done. Your experience sounds even better to me. I do not know exactly what a healthy experience would look like in this society, but I expect there are people who have figured it out on a small scale. I am pleased to hear this appears to be the case. I wish your community every success and hope your lifestyle spreads. The commonly accepted narrative of what we as parents are supposed to be doing, at least the one presented to me, is something I find very unreasonable.

To be completely clear, I am not criticizing parents who stay at home to raise their children. I am criticizing a society which expects them to do it alone. I am not advocating daycare as a panacea. I am saying any communal support at all represents a step away from the insanity. It sounds like your local community does not have the expectation that stay at home parents should naturally be superheroes. Please take over the world. :)

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#438

Post by Dove »

bradlys wrote: post #353
Dove wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced the isolated stay at home parent model is not normal human behavior, but a pathology of our particular society which represents an unreasonable expectation derived from an excessive commitment to individualism and independence. It is not psychologically reasonable to expect one person to care for children all day every day. It is not historically or broadly culturally normal. It is not healthy for eith…

It's definitely weird when you think about it. It seems like a relatively new model. That said - what are you going to do about it? Our major cities and culture are not setup for addressing these issues at all. We have a hard enough time trying to pass anything through congress. Trying to get some huge child care bill through is nigh on impossible. On top of that - it will, of course, not do anything for people who l…

I'm not sure what I am going to do about it. I appreciate the encouragement to elevate my frustration into a serious problem to consider trying to solve. I doubt throwing money at it via government is the answer, though perhaps it is a piece of it. It's possible there's a way to change this via a service, but it seems like a big piece of the solution would have to be a big cultural change.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#439

Post by hereme888 »

AYBABTME wrote: post #391
umvi wrote: post #179

Unpopular opinion - but I think farming out the majority of the raising of children to daycares is a bad idea in the long term. Obviously some times you don't have a choice, but I think stay-at-home moms (or dads) are extremely valuable for the development of the child and potentially worth more than any monetary gains to be had from dual-income. Yeah, you might not be able to afford a nice house or car as quickly, b…

I'm not sure that having a child growing up in an isolated environment, interacting with mostly one person, is good or healthy. I have a hunch that exposure to many people, situations and environments is better for the child, as long as the overall exposure is positive. Not only that, but the isolation of the caregiver probably makes the caregiver less fit (depression, imagination-killing-routine) to provide quality…

I don't think the argument had anything to do with isolation. Your reply sounds stereotypical. Stay-at-home parents - and similarly, home-schooled children - usually have a richer and more vibrant community than schooled children and the average 9-5 working parent.

I've met hundreds, and it always strikes me as a more ideal life, because it's steeped in strong community.

Of course there are the isolation exceptions that make headlines in news media.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#440

Post by HBKXNCUO »

lutorm wrote: post #375
tharne wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing raising children to receiving healthcare is absurd. Raising children is an instinct that's hardwired in each of us. Administering healthcare as we do today is a modern technical skill specific to a particular time and place. Regarding your last comment about people not having kids because it's too expensive, while that may be a popular thing to say it's 100% false. As individuals and societies become wealth…

Raising children is an instinct that's hardwired in each of us. Maybe, but raising children well certainly isn't...

And more certainly than that, neither is raising other people's children well in exchange for minimum wage.
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