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If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

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11–20 of 184 posts

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#11
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

That's one of the standard metrics to judge any currency. Bitcoin is not advertised as an asset but as a digital currency. But it has clearly become primarily an asset, given the minimal uses of it as a currency.

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#12
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

You can google any ticker symbol and find the volume relative to the outstanding shares.

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#13
post #7
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

100s of billions of dollars of gold is traded each day.

Is it actually gold that's being traded, or papers/promises/options/whatever-else-but-physical-gold saying 'x amount of gold' is actually traded?

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#14

Where is the lightning network, so people can buy common, small dollar amounts of goods and services with BTC? IMO that's going to be the next catalyst, it's slowly fading out until it's at least technologically possible to go mainstream.

LN has some fundamental issues with regards to security that I don't have time to go into there. However any L2 protocol based on BTC is going to have a hard time getting bootstrapped for the simple reason that there isn't enough throughout in the mainnet to transfer a sufficient amount of balance to a second layer. With the UTXO pool fragmented as is I don't think there is much hope of improvement.

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#15
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

Because Bitcoin is (at least theoretically) a currency. You're comparing it to a commodity or store of value. The power of a currency is the ability to trade it for goods and services. If that is no longer happening with Bitcoin it has morphed into something else entirely.

I've never owned or traded bitcoin, but as I understand it the main attraction is that it's like the gold standard (of course for people who don't understand why the gold standard was a bad idea).

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#18
> About 9.1 million bitcoins, representing about 51% of those outstanding, haven’t changed hands in at least six months, according to Flipside. About two million of those bitcoin haven’t moved in more than two years.

Transaction volume has always been a difficult metric. For one thing, most transactions are likely to happen off-chain. That can occur in a centralized system like Coinbase. This has always been a possibility dating back to the first exchanges like Mt. Gox.

More recently, Lightning Network means that decentralized off-chain transactions can play a bigger role in Bitcoin's total transaction volume. Lightning involves two parties setting up a contract (Bitcoin has supported them from day one). This contract defines rules that allow the parties to update a private transaction (without counterparty risk) until settlement on the block chain is required. At that point a transaction is published. That transaction may represent one, a handful, or hundreds of thousands of intermediate transactions. There aren't very good ways to determine how many, and this will tend to make Bitcoin's transaction volume ever more opaque over time.

Exchanges are starting to support Lightning as a method to move bitcoin in and out.

Second, absolute transaction count doesn't take coin value or age into account. For example, I can just flip the same 0.001 BTC back and forth to myself rapidly. That would add many transactions but wouldn't reveal much of value.

An alternative metric is "bitcoin days destroyed" (BDD). BDD equals the value of the coin being spent multiplied by its age in days, summed over all transactions in a given period:

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/845/what-are-bit...

When BDD spikes you know that either old coins are being spent or that lots value in younger coins is being spent. That metric might be more economically valuable. There's a realtime chart here:

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/charts/coindays-destroyed?int...

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#19
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

Because Bitcoin is (at least theoretically) a currency. You're comparing it to a commodity or store of value. The power of a currency is the ability to trade it for goods and services. If that is no longer happening with Bitcoin it has morphed into something else entirely.

Yes, it has morphed. The devs in charge of Bitcoin have purposely abandoned the idea of it being a currency. On-chain transactions are artificially limited to about four per second, and they refuse to change that. They call it a "store of value" now.

Other cryptocurrencies are working hard on scaling to the point of being workable currencies.

Re: If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t

#20
post #4

Many reasons to be dubious about bitcoin and its liquidity and how much wash trading goes on, but it seems a bit odd to judge it by the amount of outstanding coin being traded. How much gold that exists is actively traded? Or even the same question for a typical company stock?

Because Bitcoin is (at least theoretically) a currency. You're comparing it to a commodity or store of value. The power of a currency is the ability to trade it for goods and services. If that is no longer happening with Bitcoin it has morphed into something else entirely.

BTC has always had more in common with rare gemstones like Taaffeite than currencies or even metals.

No practical value, no industrial value, no means to materially change the rate of production, nothing special at all except that it is rare, only a few people care about it, and its price will always depend primarily on the behavior of a very small number of market participants.

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