Learning to code vs. learning to automate • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#61

Post by taormina » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #44

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

There is a sci-fi story somewhere that talks about this premise. It’s a machine that just gives constant orders to the employees of an establishment. Like “grab the mop”, “go to the bathroom”, “mop from left to right” (you get the idea) The story makes the cases that the employees are actually satisfied because they don’t have to do any thinking for themselves. They just follow these methodical simple and timed tasks…

I also love that the actual premise here was automating away MANAGEMENT.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#62

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

pletnes wrote: post #57

scarface74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi off topic: Workflow (Shortcuts) for iOS is great and it is semi ported to the Mac via Catalyst libraries ( https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/11810213462240583... ). Hopefully, Apple actually goes whole hog and ports WorkFlow to the Mac next year.

It seems so promising, but I have yet to identify a real use case. Do you have any genuinely useful examples for everyday life?

The Shortcuts for the Mac example is a hack that the author did just as a proof of concept.

I’ve only done one simple shortcut that lets me say “Get Directions” to Siri and it asks for an address and it launches Google Maps instead of Apple Maps.

Federico Viticci is considered the king of shortcuts in the Mac community.

https://www.macstories.net/shortcuts/

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#63

Post by yowlingcat » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #51

bransonf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a sci-fi story somewhere that talks about this premise. It’s a machine that just gives constant orders to the employees of an establishment. Like “grab the mop”, “go to the bathroom”, “mop from left to right” (you get the idea) The story makes the cases that the employees are actually satisfied because they don’t have to do any thinking for themselves. They just follow these methodical simple and timed tasks…

You probably mean https://marshallbrain.com/manna.htm

I remember reading this once upon a time, but what a pleasant and hilarious rabbit hole to see again. Thank you for putting this in my feed!

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#64

Post by bendbro » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

This is one of the most amusing Hackernews comments I've read.

Do you by chance play something like Arma, DCS, or Farming Simulator?

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#65

Post by criddell » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

pletnes wrote: post #57

scarface74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi off topic: Workflow (Shortcuts) for iOS is great and it is semi ported to the Mac via Catalyst libraries ( https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/11810213462240583... ). Hopefully, Apple actually goes whole hog and ports WorkFlow to the Mac next year.

It seems so promising, but I have yet to identify a real use case. Do you have any genuinely useful examples for everyday life?

I made it for fun, but it ended up being kind of useful. I say to Siri "record my weigh" and it response "how much do you weight?" I say the number and it records that number, along with the data and time, in a Google spreadsheet.

Khoi Vinh wrote about shortcuts on his blog[1]. He uses one to automatically archive screenshots to a particular Evernote notebook.

[1]:https://www.subtraction.com/2019/12/04/shortcuts-and-screens...

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#66

Post by jotm » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

Heh, I've been thinking that would be great for distractions. Have to work but are on Reddit? Shock!

Alternatives: automated time waster blocking (on the router probably), self-blackmail (nudes go out automatically, or your important stuff is deleted).

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#67

Post by jotm » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

MPetitt wrote: post #48

mmierz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not external muscle control, that’s not what a TENS unit does. OP is describing using painful electric shocks to punish a worker for mistakes or for going off-task, i.e. brutalize workers into performing with machine like efficiency.

I think he was proposing using the TENS for muscle control similarly to https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5QYpD428hAQ

Oh, OK. I also thought it was electroshock motivation.

You still can't just "turn off" your mind, most likely. You'll just be trapped there thinking

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#68

Post by rurcliped » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

The problem often isn't ability to automate. It's that the workers closest to the problem have an overwhelming disincentive to automate.

Suppose I have a low-level job in Peloton operations. Our Phalange Team must ensure that, before a bike's in-home delivery date is confirmed, the delivery technician has placed an internal order for a left phalange. Each of us spends all day navigating between the Sales app and the Internal Order app.

My daughter tells me how I can automate this. But I never do it. Why?

1. Even if I were 100% sure the coding would be finished in one day, the daily metrics for the Phalange Team would still signal a problem.

2. It introduces uncertainty. I can tell my manager exactly how long the manual process takes, but I can't tell her how long it takes to write code.

3. It trades off the mean for the variance. Suppose it handles 99.44% of the cases but there's a rare bug where it never sends a delivery date if the Internal Order backend has a timeout error. On average, scheduling is 90% faster but some customers aren't scheduled at all. Not an acceptable outcome.

4. If I successfully automate it, all of my coworkers lose their jobs.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#69

Post by gherkinnn » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

bendbro wrote: post #64

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

This is one of the most amusing Hackernews comments I've read. Do you by chance play something like Arma, DCS, or Farming Simulator?

Arma? You mean spending weeks learning the controls, then slowly walking towards your objective for hours, only to be sniped from across the map? What’s not to like?

Oh, how I miss the ArmA ACE mod days.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#70

Post by sigmaprimus » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

black_puppydog wrote: post #54

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

> Personally I would still be willing to wear a suit like that if the pay was good enough. That seems like an unlikely premise, and thus a meaningless statement. It's not physical coercion like you imagined, but take a look at how amazon logistics workers get managed by their wearables. Then look at how they describe the job. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this would always be used on people who can't fight…

My thought was more along the lines of a welder or pottery wheel operator where precise and steady movements are required. I would agree that is the immorality of such a device as it is quite easy to turn it into an electronic whip of sorts.