Learning to code vs. learning to automate • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#51

Post by js8 » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #44

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

There is a sci-fi story somewhere that talks about this premise. It’s a machine that just gives constant orders to the employees of an establishment. Like “grab the mop”, “go to the bathroom”, “mop from left to right” (you get the idea) The story makes the cases that the employees are actually satisfied because they don’t have to do any thinking for themselves. They just follow these methodical simple and timed tasks…

You probably mean https://marshallbrain.com/manna.htm

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#52

Post by vsareto » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

I bet you could take the capital/development/money from developing that suit and instead put it towards reducing the cost of the robot it's designed to compete with.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#53

Post by Zhyl » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

monkeydust wrote: post #16

Just brought print version of https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ (2nd edition just released) - thought it would be a good way to learn some code in a practical interesting setting of automation

This is a really good book.

Aside from being a good tutorial for beginners, what makes it unique is the scope of what the reader is expected to learn to produce: small scripts that will greatly benefit them in their daily life. It demonstrated the power of computing, gives the reader agency and it is entirely possible to cover enough to be actually useful within one book.

I've believed for a while that scripting should be the emphasis for most primary and secondary education computing courses, and companies should even invest in training witha wider remit than they currently do. There's been many times when knowing some VBA or a small amount of Python would have saved hours or even days worth of effort in repetitive tasks.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#54

Post by black_puppydog » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

sigmaprimus wrote: post #23

When I was younger I dreamed up an idea of a shock suit, basically it would have been a set of long underwear top and bottom with electrodes that would act like a TENS machine to gently(or not so gently) nudge the wearers into performing a repetitive task with machine accuracy. I figured this would be great for an assembly line and could provide a cheaper alternative to a very costly robot while still providing emplo…

> Personally I would still be willing to wear a suit like that if the pay was good enough.

That seems like an unlikely premise, and thus a meaningless statement. It's not physical coercion like you imagined, but take a look at how amazon logistics workers get managed by their wearables. Then look at how they describe the job.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this would always be used on people who can't fight back, because they're in some sort of disadvantage (usually economic) and so they would never be paid well enough.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#55

Post by pletnes » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #33

vasili111 wrote: post #10

I totally agree that learning "just coding" per se should not be a goal. It should also help to solve some of your real problems and automation is one of the topic that is very likely you need to solve. When you do something that you like and at the same time need it pays off twice. In fact I got most of my programming skills by implementing simple automation task that I needed. I highly recommend AutoHotkey ( https:…

I just changed jobs from developing on Windows to developing on a Linux virtual machine in Windows. I miss AutoHotkey so much. There are so many things that the command line can't do -- GUI commands, window switchers, and so on. It's a great example of how "learn to automate" can beat "learn to code". When you know how to do something by hand, learning enough about a program's API to do the same thing is a separate l…

Pyautogui does some of the things AHK does.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#56

Post by satyrnein » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #50

diffeomorphism wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forest, trees... There are problems one should automate but there are many problems where automating is not worth the effort. https://xkcd.com/1319/ https://xkcd.com/1205/

I'm willing to agree that some problems aren't worth automating, especially when they have nasty or absent API surface, or when the task changes too much. On the other hand, looking only at time spent is also a very incomplete picture; I've written scripts for tasks that I was fine doing manually just because it allowed me to add free sanity checks and cut down on human error. (Story time: We had a regular process to…

This a good companion to my sibling comment. Despite what I said about other departments, I do believe in automating all of our own (tech) stuff, basically for the reasons above: decreased error rate on sensitive tasks, ability to execute emergency tasks quickly, etc. But perhaps those are good targets for the type of task that should be automated generally.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#57

Post by pletnes » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #18

save_ferris wrote: post #5

Any recommendations on a good MacOS GUI automation tool that isnt Automator? Seems like the windows automation ecosystem has several options, but I’m struggling to find a good Mac solution that’s capable of automating desktop apps with fine-grained workflows

Semi off topic: Workflow (Shortcuts) for iOS is great and it is semi ported to the Mac via Catalyst libraries ( https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/11810213462240583... ). Hopefully, Apple actually goes whole hog and ports WorkFlow to the Mac next year.

It seems so promising, but I have yet to identify a real use case. Do you have any genuinely useful examples for everyday life?

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#58

Post by bransonf » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #51

bransonf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a sci-fi story somewhere that talks about this premise. It’s a machine that just gives constant orders to the employees of an establishment. Like “grab the mop”, “go to the bathroom”, “mop from left to right” (you get the idea) The story makes the cases that the employees are actually satisfied because they don’t have to do any thinking for themselves. They just follow these methodical simple and timed tasks…

You probably mean https://marshallbrain.com/manna.htm

Thank you, this is exactly what I was thinking of

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#59

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #46

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You _can_ write plain text code, add an Applescript or Javascript block. Or just use Script Editor directly instead of going through Automator. Apple Events are quite powerful and let you add a lot of functionality.

I hope you would agree that this unnecessarily cumbersome. A plain text script file is hard to beat.

As I said, you can use Script Editor.app, in the Utilities folder, instead of Automator.

Personally, I like to write and test Applescripts in the Script Editor, and then throw them into Automator when I'm finished so I can save them as "Services", which means they'll appear in the right click menu of whatever app(s) I choose. But that's entirely optional.

Re: Learning to code vs. learning to automate

#60

Post by kgwxd » Sun, Dec 08, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #20

> “avoid thinking of writing code as the goal and learn to solve problems.” Hasn't this been done to death now? Are there still developers out there whose primary focus is writing code rathet than solving problems?

Every programmer that isn't given the opportunity to refute design choices or question the domain knowledge handed down from above. There's still plenty of programming jobs intentionally structured to be like that.

Edit: Also, this article is from June 10th... 2015.