A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier • Hacker News Board

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#631

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 12:31 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #532

Spooky23 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because society has evolved to consider the economic aspirations of people who own stuff to be a higher order virtue than liberty or the public welfare.

> society has evolved Can you point to any point in human history (since the invention of farming) in which a smaller fraction of people worked menial jobs than now?

Menial or low skilled work doesn’t have to be a “shit job”. They are that way because society allows them to be.

I worked on a farm throwing hay. It’s literally backbreaking work, but I had an awesome employer who thought about safety and making for a better workplace. If Amazon were running that farm, I’d be crippled by debilitating pain today.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#632

Post by bromuro » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 12:38 PM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #612

cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

Americans are generally reluctant to allow rich social benefits that aren't "earned". People who don't earn are called "lazy". In reality they're unable. They're unable because they lack access to good education starting very early in life. They lack access because their parents also lacked access, and nobody with access is willing to give these "lazy" people a "handout". This sharp (and sharpening) class divide is t…

Some (most) are unable because they just prefer to spend life on other things than chasing “success” or compete to be better than others. Why exclude and punish these people too?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#633

Post by bmsleight_ » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #598

mrtksn wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be argued for anybody. For example, Engineers who don't start their own companies are at fault when the company they work for goes tits up and they are unemployed at an advanced age and unemployable because of their outdated skillset. The truth is, I think, nobody perfectly optimizes their prospects. People are people and people like to be in their social groups and compete in their social groups, which…

The truth is, I think, nobody perfectly optimizes their prospects. People are people and people like to be in their social groups and compete in their social groups, which puts you on a track to a specific future. I'm not asking for perfect optimization. Getting out of a minimum wage salary in a 15-year span doesn't require much optimization for most people. So I am asking about the cases where it does. I hear that c…

That is real tough hand. Everything done right, then the rug pulled under you.

How are you now ?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#634

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:00 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #624

scarface74 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the cited article. So after investing $1-$3 million dollars, a McDonalds franchise owner makes about the same as a software engineer in a major US city and the software engineer didn’t have to spend $1 to $3 million and has a lot less risk. Most franchise owners aren’t “starting a business” they are “buying a job”. But a 2013 report from Franchise Business Review dug down into the numbers and came up with a net…

Remember with a global system, average doesn’t mean major city. It’s apples and oranges to compare to a SWE. With Chick-Fil-A, operators just get one store. They are buying a job. McDonalds franchisees usually own multiple stores and have different business interests.

And wouldn’t a McDonalds store in the middle of nowhere also make less money than a major city? But even at $150K net income, there isn’t much room to raise salaries.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#635

Post by ido » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

eptcyka wrote: post #607

apexalpha wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch here, too. While everyone below a certain income gets benefits like healthcare subsidy you can still live okay on a McDonalds salary. If you make €10 an hour you get €1600 a month. And at that level you pay almost no income tax. While not a lot, you don't necessarily need the foodbank or other subsidies than the regular ones to make ends meet.

Just 5 years ago, I would've considered 1600 Euros or the pound equivalent a month to be plenty of money. At the time, I was a student living in the UK. Some years earlier still, whilst back in my native baltic state, that kind of a monthly income would seem super comfortable.

The biggest difference is that housing is a lot more expensive in western cities - it is likely that even a modest 2-room (1-bedroom) apartment in a major city like Amsterdam would cost the majority of that wage to rent (and we're not talking about just students, but older people who can't get better jobs).

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#636

Post by Miner49er » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #245

Miner49er wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yang's implementation is very regressive. You have the regressive VAT tax, but then you also have the fact that you are cutting government benefits then giving everyone $1000. So the poor just end up net poorer. Example: Now: $12,000 a year + $12,000 in benefits = $24,000 $50,000 a year + $0 in benefits = $50,000 UBI: $12,000 a year + $12,000 in UBI = $24,000 $50,000 a year + $12,000 in UBI = $62,000 The poorer perso…

You're missing a couple of things - first, it isn't zero sum. I don't care if I'm poor relatively as long as I'm not poor absolutely. Second, the average benefit isn't $1,000 a month and in almost all cases the $1k per month is an increase on existing benefit numbers. Third, since it doesn't come with strings, you don't have to worry about losing your benefits when you get a job or a kid leaves the home, when you rel…

> You're missing a couple of things - first, it isn't zero sum. I don't care if I'm poor relatively as long as I'm not poor absolutely.

Sure, but even people with benefits are struggling to get by. To not be poor absolutely we should be giving them $1000 a month on top of current benefits. Just $1000 a month will leave many absolutely poor. Also, I'm not an economist, but I don't think we can really predict what will happen with inflation, rent prices, etc, when the vast majority of people become $1000 richer. I find it hard to believe it won't cause increases in prices in at least some things. If that happens you aren't just poorer relatively.

> Second, the average benefit isn't $1,000 a month and in almost all cases the $1k per month is an increase on existing benefit numbers.

It doesn't really matter just changes the amounts a bit. Even if you assume benefits are $100 a month only, you still only gain $900 a month from the UBI(because you lose the $100). Everyone else is gaining $100 more then you.

> Third, since it doesn't come with strings, you don't have to worry about losing your benefits when you get a job or a kid leaves the home, when you relapse or when you get sick and can't manage the tangled web of government red tape.

Yeah fair enough, I'm not against UBI. I'm only against Yang's implementation. I think we should add it on top of existing benefits. I also think it is only a band-aid or should be a small part of the overall solution.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#637

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #616

soulofmischief wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I don't come across as projecting. I am just sharing my own experience in poverty. I am still not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination and I have no support network. Obviously everyone is different. This is why I asked for other points of view for a better sample size.

I come from a poor family. My parents made a point of never spending any more than the bare minimum amount of money on me, and both had to work full time jobs. I would make my own way home from school every day from the age of 7. I would make my own way to school from the age of 11. School was a 90min bus ride one way, or a 30 min drive (60 min round trip, x2 for start+end of day). That doesn't change that I had both…

Nobody exists in a vacuum.

You're arguing a strawman. You are introducing absolutes into a conversation which was purposefully framed as fluid. For example, I said most of the positive things. Your post is built upon the premise that I believe all positive things in my life came only from within, however you said the word only, not me.

I am immensely privileged to have had the amount of support I have had.

That's great... almost comes off as bragging, but okay...

check your privilege, appreciate it for what it is, and try not to look down on those that didn't have the same opportunities that you did.

...Seriously? You are literally coming from a place of higher privilege and looking down on me. You are projecting your own fortune onto me and consequently expecting the same attitude. I have not had such fortune as you, in fact most people haven't.

I don't need to check my privilege, I am aware of everything I have and wake up every day thankful I don't live in a place like Saudi Arabia. But we aren't talking about Saudi Arabia. We are talking about America, and our conversation about privilege is relative to America. And relative to America, I have lived in abject poverty for most of my life.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#638

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

abvdasker wrote: post #557

soulofmischief wrote: post #508

I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I…

> I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I lived rural area. To me it sounds like you're saying, "why doesn't she live closer to her workplace?" which carries with it a kind of subtext of blame. Reading the article a few possible explanations for her choice come to mind. The author mentions she lives with her boyfriend's parents.…

Apologies if this comes across as pedantic, but I think the mistake you may be making is projecting your narrow personal experience of your mother's problems onto a complete stranger, whose circumstances seem quite different than your mother's based on the article

I'm confused by the tendency of you and other users to call a post which is literally asking for other anecdotes of economic struggle to be projecting and indicative of a narrow mindset. I was simply providing my own data point to start. The very act of asking for other perspectives is not what I would call narrow-minded. This kind of response is why people are afraid to open up to others.

In fact, in this entire reply thread only one user bothered to actually share a story of economic strife, which even acknowledged fault on their part (no one is perfect). Meanwhile, tons of comments criticizing me for my point of view when I am literally asking people to change it. One user even called me sociopathic and then proceeded to offer an even more callous point of view while relating that they do not come from a position of poverty at all.

It's heartening to see that you recognize your perspective may stem from your own problems with empathy.

No, that is not what I said. I do not have problems empathizing with others, and I do not appreciate that extrapolation. This is a very specific situation I have trouble empathizing with. David Foster Wallace was a great author and the world misses him.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#639

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

cixter wrote: post #611

soulofmischief wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make bad decisions every day. How does that have to do with anything? Ms. Brown has had 14 years to come up with a career trajectory. I don't think she has ever bothered in that time to visit a career consultant after realizing she couldn't figure it out on her own. Random fluctuations in decision quality average out over time to reveal a smooth function of decision-making prowess.

When would she have time to do this? Also (and I feel like I'm grasping at straws getting this point across), when your whole existence revolves around just getting to work and back, is it fair of us to require people to have the horizon and insight to understand how to progress their situation? The underlying problem is that exploitation of poor people by these massive corporations lines the pockets of the already e…

when your whole existence revolves around just getting to work and back, is it fair of us to require people to have the horizon and insight to understand how to progress their situation?

The implication is that I expect people of reasonable intelligence to do whatever, and I mean whatever, they have to do within ethical boundaries in order to increase their economic opportunities. I don't need a crash course in the history of racial socioeconomic exploitation in the US.

Ask any successful black entrepreneur in the US if they agree with me.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#640

Post by cixter » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

JD_MRT wrote: post #628

cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

You have to realize that Norway is swimming in oil, so quite easy to subsidize all that you want. Then McDonald's net income is about USD 6bn not USD10bn. Which divided by its 1.7 million employees would make an extra USD 294 per month, which as someone already pointed out would go straight into the landlord's pockets. By comparison McDonald's is also quite profitable (net income margins close to 30%), unlike most co…

Yeah, we have a comfortable cushion in our pension fund, but other scandinavian and european countries have a similar solution.

But what do you mean "would go straight into the landlords pockets". Are you saying that rent would immediately rise to eat the difference if McD increased their salaries?