Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#91

Post by kazagistar » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

ixtis7 wrote: post #73

dangerface wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

China, perhaps. Russia is in the doldrums. The 'problem' with China is that it's an ethnostate, or wants to be. So in a practical sense most Westerners are better off fixing their allegiances to the US, for better or worse. At least then you can be part of the apparatus and not pre-emptively sidelined. I like some aspects of China vs. the US too, but China is for the Chinese , as they say.

I'm not sure I see this. They certainly are awful authoritarians and imperialists, but I haven't actually seen the ethnostate facism, or not in excess of what is in the Americas for example.

I would say most westerners would be better off not fixing their alliances to any imperialist machine, Russian, Chineese, or American. Even the EU is suspect, but its moderating influence against the worst possible facism still seems to be worth the costs and is worth reforming.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#92

Post by phatfish » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #25

_Understated_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trolling, but is there anything that says they're breaking the current laws in Spain? (I'm from the UK, so no dog in this fight althought I can see our gov implementing it at some point I reckon) Sure, they're taking advantage of tax loopholes I'd bet but in themselves, they're not necessarily against the law. They're probably paying all the tax in Spain they're currently, legally obliged to pay at the moment. Ju…

There's no such thing as a tax loophole. It's the law, and is written specifically the way it is for a reason. "Loophole" by definition implies that it's a mistake, and with the amount of money at stake that's incredibly unlikely.

So all countries individual tax laws interacting with each other is completely "bug free"? Seems very unlikely. Maybe if there was a single global law for taxation, but even then it would have to be perfectly designed.

A much more likely scenario is that not all outcomes can be accounted for, and for those willing to pick through the laws there is money to be made by finding the loophole.

When one is found the politics of changing the law to fix it come into play of course.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#93

Post by tim333 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

Zero corporate tax would lead to a lot of avoidance and drops in government revenue. Say you are a consultant earning 100k a year who owns a house. You could just pay the 100k to your company and borrow against the house for living costs and pay zero tax for the time being.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#94

Post by vector_rotcev » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

dangerface wrote: post #60

vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

Do you think that individual countries (or the EU itself) counts as a comparable fourth entity in the USA-Russia-China trinity of 'global superpowers' (if that's the right term)?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#95

Post by umvi » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

gorgoiler wrote: post #76

tyzerdak wrote: post #63

I think taxes is already so high that half of person earnings goes to retards in government. Why do we pay taxes? I know many people that have close to 0 benefits from government. I would propose all governments to make taxes 5% or 10% and remove themselves from governing.

Taxes redistribute wealth from areas of surplus to areas of need. If one lives alone forever in a log cabin one might indeed never need anything from the government. However, if you need the police to help you, you are already getting something back. If someone else needs the police and the police catch the criminal who would have made you their next target, you are getting a benefit. Now scale that up to the whole c…

The government is like a PSU though. Except it achieves nowhere near efficiency of even 80 Bronze. A large percentage of taxes just evaporate as "waste heat".

Politicians always just want to raise taxes instead of raising their tax efficiency rating.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#96

Post by rb808 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #93

seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

Zero corporate tax would lead to a lot of avoidance and drops in government revenue. Say you are a consultant earning 100k a year who owns a house. You could just pay the 100k to your company and borrow against the house for living costs and pay zero tax for the time being.

Right but eventually they money has to get from the company to the consultant - either dividends or wages. Either way it'll be taxed.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#97

Post by kazagistar » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

solarhoma wrote: post #81

ixtis7 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, perhaps. Russia is in the doldrums. The 'problem' with China is that it's an ethnostate, or wants to be. So in a practical sense most Westerners are better off fixing their allegiances to the US, for better or worse. At least then you can be part of the apparatus and not pre-emptively sidelined. I like some aspects of China vs. the US too, but China is for the Chinese , as they say.

Americans (and Europeans) are very used to the idea that no matter your race or creed you can be just as American as anyone else. We many times forget that not every country in the world acts this way. China being one of them.

(Just ignore the racism and discussion of "not real americans" and whitewashing of violence of minorities and horrifying concentration camps.)

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#98

Post by Drakar1903 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #78

kobbe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always follow USA where minimum wage is not enough to live :) - the wonders of the right.

I would suggest following the Scandinavian model of not having a minimum wage at all.

Which works because of strong position of unions. The minimum wage issue can't be simplified to "no minimum wage and yet they thrive"

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#99

Post by criley2 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

The 'double-taxed' argument is so lame. Money circulates in a system and gets taxed basically infinitely. Worker gets paid and pays income taxes and retirement taxes. Worker spends their pay, and has to pay sales taxes. Business gets revenue from that purchase, and has to pays taxes. Business gives it to employee as salary. Taxes. Employee spends it. Taxes. Taxes. Taxes. There is no such thing as 'double-taxation'.

It boggles my mind that people try to defend tax evasion by insisting that a dollar can only be taxed once... and then never again as it is used?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#100

Post by rtkwe » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #82

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end. Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. T…

"Corporations are dodging taxes lets just throw in the towel and not attempt to do that at all."

Also capital gains aren't double taxing corporate profits the benefits are going to two completely different groups of people.