Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#81

Post by solarhoma » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

ixtis7 wrote: post #73

dangerface wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

China, perhaps. Russia is in the doldrums. The 'problem' with China is that it's an ethnostate, or wants to be. So in a practical sense most Westerners are better off fixing their allegiances to the US, for better or worse. At least then you can be part of the apparatus and not pre-emptively sidelined. I like some aspects of China vs. the US too, but China is for the Chinese , as they say.

Americans (and Europeans) are very used to the idea that no matter your race or creed you can be just as American as anyone else. We many times forget that not every country in the world acts this way. China being one of them.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#82

Post by seibelj » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

IMO the corporate tax rate should be zero, and then everyone would be on the same playing field. Right now the only companies that pay taxes are small ones without the resources and staff to get around it. With 0% corporate tax, all of these games and shenanigans would end.

Also, corporate profits are double-taxed anyway, as taxes are paid once on profits then again as dividends / capital gains by the shareholders. This is one reason stock buybacks are so popular - way to benefit shareholders without the ridiculous double taxes.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#83

Post by orbifold » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

matthewowen wrote: post #70

mcrae wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh really? Check any list of the world's tax havens, and you will see the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, the Isle of Man, and Bermuda. The City of London has been a conduit through which wealth has been pilfered to these territories for a long time. They may shout from the rooftops about others' improprieties, but I seriously doubt their commitment to meaningfully overhaul their own house.

I think it was a comment about the UK no longer being a member of the EU soon (we shall see).

In fact rumor has it that a major reason for the Brexit campaign was that there was a threat of very costly corporate tax loopholes being closed in new EU wide legislation.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#84

Post by sailfast » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

dangerface wrote: post #60

vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

I admit that some of what you say regarding wars and consideration of rights outside of US Soil are in decay of late, but please also inspect the extent to which the United States continues to protect the freedom and liberty of which you speak, generally, and some of the history involved in the current state of things.

Our current president is not the United States, despite his tendency to speak as if he is. I would argue he does not represent the main stream of American foreign policy and has continually fought against the majority opinion to protect institutions that preserve these freedoms and liberty (NATO / OTAN) and oppose actions that threaten said freedoms (annexation of crimea, etc).

September 11th had a huge impact on the country's view of civil liberties (rightly or wrongly is another discussion entirely) especially looking outward. While that might undermine the argument about America being a protector of liberties, I think it would be a mistake to believe that there is no belief held at all, or that America does not continue to fight for these beliefs. History is not something to rest on, but it does leave an indication of a country's intentions, I think.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#85

Post by balfirevic » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #67

jbduler wrote: post #22

For me it makes total sense to tax Google, Facebook and all others. Why not? What do you to lose? Parking your IP in some remote country, be it Ireland or Turks and Caicos, is fine until you realize that the IP protection is not as bullet proof as you thought. And please don't come to California to sue to protect your IP. I still can't believe that none of those companies are paying Federal nor state taxes. For now.…

This has absolutely nothing to do with IP but everything to do with the delivery of services which are free, supplemented by advertising income accounted for abroad where it can not be taxed by the country where the service was delivered. Looked at in a different way: if Google was a paid for service you could levy sales tax on that service.

But Google earns it's money from selling ads. If they are selling those ads to business in EU, the mechanics (and taxation) seem to be the same as (for example) a US graphic design company selling logo design services to businesses in EU.

What exactly is new here? Is it just the size (and wealth) of Google and similar companies that has encouraged the governments to try to take a larger slice of pie?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#86

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #36

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know. They are socialists so they don't care if blue collar workers suffer just so they can "send a message". The Conservatives in the UK are planning a similar tax, they are certainly not a socialist party.

It is nationalism in that case or more specifically "tax somebody else who can't vote against" always being a popular plan among voters.

Is "tax a company who is making vast amounts of money by operating in our country the same rates that we other businesses doing the same" really a controversial policy position?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#87

Post by Sawamara » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #80

tim333 wrote: post #71

I'm not sure of the details of Spain's proposal but something needs to be done really to make taxation more fair. At the moment you get headlines like "Facebook paid just £28m tax after record £1.6bn revenues in UK" because they fiddle it with offshore tax havens while normal UK businesses have to pay more like 30% of their income in tax, not 1.7%.

I recommend reading beyond headlines to understand the world.

Help us out, champ.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#88

Post by dustinmoris » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

dangerface wrote: post #60

vector_rotcev wrote: post #32

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically. Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Europeans like me like America because they are very vocal about freedom and liberty but we are waking up to the reality that it's all talk. The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil. USA are not the good guys and Russia and China are not the bad guys they a…

> The USA behaves like Russia and China, they spy on foreigners, influence their elections, start unjustified wars for oil and generally have a very low regard for freedom and liberty outside of their soil.

That perfectly summarises the sentiment I get as a European in Europe, the UK and elsewhere in the world. The US is not different to any other bad actor. In fact the US looks increasingly worse to the rest of the world, which not only means that lots of other countries (and their leaders) lose respect for the US, but it also fuels a bigger sentiment that the Western values represented by the US are doomed to fail, because the US is visibly more plagued by social and criminal issues which you don't find elsewhere.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#89

Post by praptak » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #29

I wish the article had more info on the mechanics of the tax. How do they measure “value” and what percent of the value do they want to collect as tax? The ad sales might make sense, but why not just add a tax on all advertising. The marketplace tax is confusing because do they tax the value of the transaction? The full customer value that results of the acquisition? Why not just use existing sales tax for retail tra…

> I think this will just result in a tarrif on Spanish goods.

I doubt it would be easier than a Spanish tariff on goods from a single US state.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#90

Post by gbuk2013 » Thu, Dec 05, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #50

pmontra wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA are entering an isolationist phase (it started with Obama, acccelerated by Trump) so it's natural that the rest of world is a little bit less concerned about their threats. Unfortunately the new possible friends look less friendly than the USA of the second half of '900.

Please use the right words so that no one misunderstands the truth or thinks that you are lying. What the USA is doing is in no way isolationist. That is something completely different with no parallels or relations in any way. Using the word isolationist is misleading to the point of mistruth. It would be more accurate and representative of reality to say the USA appears to be acting more independently on the intern…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) as championed by the current US president.

"America First refers to a foreign policy in the United States that generally emphasizes American nationalism, unilateralism, protectionism, and isolationism."