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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#141

Post by yabadabadoes »

lm28469 wrote: post #47
krilly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? To me the upsetting part is that these kids must feel unsafe / monitored. Which is exactly what they shouldn't go through in school, it's far from a good start in life. But then again with all the school shootings I don't blame the security companies, it's a deep cultural/societal issue. It's similar to what happened in Europe in the last few years, now it's busine…

> It's similar to what happened in Europe in the last few years, now it's business as usual when soldiers in full gear + assault rifles patrol the streets in major cities or during big public events

I've not seen a lot of that.. More at US Christmas markets.

At any rate, I view policing events in that fashion or China adding security guards for their knife attack problem as not actually the same as US schools. In most cases the perpetrator is an adult that is dropping out and hard to reach. The US is worried about youth going through their social integration system who become violent as a result and that it apparently doesn't catch deteriorating preemptively as much as other societies. Many arguments can be made as to why, i.e. a litigious society leads to little personal risk to address abnormal problems.

A child who goes to a US school and observes the precautions should become paranoid about trusting themselves and their friends not to go on a killing spree. A child going to a Chinese school should mostly be more afraid of a scarier world.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#142

Post by shkkmo »

blattimwind wrote: post #86
lolc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up how many kids are killed by cars. Then go see how many are killed by guns outside school. Then check how many are killed by guns in school.

Your argument is very, very weak whataboutism. Just because people die of other things more frequently does not mean that you are not supposed to prevent deaths. Your argument suggests that we should not be bothering with a justice system at all, because far more people die of cancer and heart disease than are murdered or crippled, therefore it would be dumb to put any money down for preventing and prosecuting murder…

Do you have any evidence that clear backpacks have a meaningful impact of deaths in schools from guns? Is that impact sufficient to warrant the culture of fear that is being incolcated into these poor kids?

It's not whataboutism, it's cost benefit analysis.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#143

Post by MereInterest »

lolc wrote: post #65
grecy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ummm, please explain? Surely the US has by far the highest gun murder rate in schools among developed countries. EDIT: The down votes are interesting - are you down voting because what I said is not true, or because you just don't like that it is true?

Look up how many kids are killed by cars. Then go see how many are killed by guns outside school. Then check how many are killed by guns in school.

Cars are designed to transport people from place to place, and cause death as an unfortunate side effect. Guns are designed to propel bullets at high speed, and cause death as the intended primary effect.

There can be other conversations about the effectiveness of public transportation, and how the US infrastructure was designed around cars instead of buses/trains, but there is a pretty big difference beyond the number of deaths caused.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#144

Post by Kaiyou »

wbronitsky wrote: post #107
sojournerc wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, making something illegal does not make it disappear, and you're also grossly overestimating the occurrence (as are the people calling for clear backpacks) of school shootings. The vast majority of shootings are between criminal gangs - making the guns illegal will not magically make criminals into upstanding citizens. Consider that the news cycle and FUD have created a terrible availability bias in our…

One school shooting is far too many. I reject your argument vehemently. We are talking about murdered children.

One school kid being run over by a car is far too many. We should ban cars!

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#145

Post by hcurtiss »

shadowgovt wrote: post #89
turk73 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather just shut down the schools than give up any more rights. If you haven't noticed, our Federal government is totally out of control and has gone rogue and I don't think it's a very good idea to cede any further power or individual rights to that monster. The right to bear arms was paid for in blood and not just once. Good men laid down their lives so we could have these rights. That a few kooks will shoot up…

How do other countries get along so well without the right to bear arms, and have they paid any less blood than the US for the society they formed?

Ask Venezuela or Iraq or Iran or Hong Kong or basically any of the countries in the Arab spring how it’s going for them right now.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#147

Post by tomatotomato37 »

nguoi wrote: post #97
noonespecial wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. But clear backpacks do nothing at all to make them safer. And everyone with half a brain knows this. It conditions the entire population to accept security theater and government surveillance as part of everyday life. This sets the entire society up to be unable to resist government overreach in the future. Clear backpacks increase the risk of death from tyranny.

>But clear backpacks do nothing at all to make them safer I must be missing most of my brain then because, to me, this sounds unfounded.

Someone looking to sneak a gun in would be hiding it in their pant's waistband or some other part of their clothes; inversely if they are looking to commit a public atrocity they'll skip the sneaking part altogether. Mandating clear backpacks is just as much security theater as is banning 4 oz liquid containers at the airport

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#148

Post by doubt_me »

im_with_stupid wrote: post #67
rahuldottech wrote: post #20

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

You have people teaching nihilism. This is the result of nihilism. If you want to eliminate this problem, then eliminate nihilism. The solution to keep people from killing should focus on teaching others that life is not meaningless or worthless. Also, teaching kids humility wouldn't hurt either. Edit: Perhaps this should be obvious, but teaching about nihilism is not teaching nihilism. People teach nihilism more, if…

.....?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#149

Post by nguoi »

zepto wrote: post #123
nguoi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a poor comparison though. Both of the others provide other benefits: a method of commuting to school or exercise. Potentially even scholarships. Fashionable backpacks do nothing.

Freedom from arbitrary restrictions does something.

Welcome to mandatory education

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#150

Post by goatinaboat »

ptero wrote: post #60
krilly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. What country are you talking about? Honest question, just curious. I am in the US, but even today many small and medium sized companies do not monitor internet (block parts, sure, but not monitor) and 10 years ago even large companies did not do it.

am in the US, but even today many small and medium sized companies do not monitor internet

Every URL accessed via a proxy will be logged, even no one is actively reviewing those logs regularly

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