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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

41–50 of 560 posts

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#41

> Water bottles must also be clear, so school officials can see the color of the liquid inside. Given the huge range of drinks available in the USA, especially soft drinks, I'm curious to know what colour isn't acceptable.

Is there something about bomb water that doesn't allow it to be made clear? Alcohol is already clear so they're not stopping that.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#42
post #29

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades.

Blocking has been standard in some workplaces, and stricter blocking has been standard in schools, but monitoring isn't. Small and medium businesses and academia often have little or no blocking.

No-one gets any alert if I write "I want to kill myself or maybe the president" here (over TLS), nor will they when you download this page. For some children, this does generate an alert -- even on a secure site.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#43
post #29

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

Blocking certain internet resources has been in place for decades, not constant monitoring.

Schools have started constant CCTV surveillance. Often with flawed AI systems in place. Clear bags and all these practices condition them to value their privacy less, which is a very bad thing.

> Kids in the west wouldn't think twice about accepting the Ts and C's for Snapchat or IG or anything else that includes face scanning tech.

Surely you understand why that's bad, right? What they're taught hasn't been updated in decades, whereas the world around them has changed so much. They're taught as kids not to trust strangers. Why are they not taught to not trust random apps?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#44

> Water bottles must also be clear, so school officials can see the color of the liquid inside. Given the huge range of drinks available in the USA, especially soft drinks, I'm curious to know what colour isn't acceptable.

Also a lot of harmful and/or combustible liquids are clear like water. Methanol, ethanol, propanol, acetone, benzene, cyclohexane are all highly combustible and colorless. Also concentrated nitric acid or concentrated sodium hydroxide lye are both colorless and cause severe chemical burns.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#45
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an unpopular opinion, though it probably is on this site.

It's a very unpopular opinion w.r.t. to America. Gallup conducts a firearms poll every year, and the closest thing to a total ban question is a total ban on handguns. "Do you think there should or should not be a law that would ban the possession of handguns, except by the police and other authorized persons?" should be: 29 should not be: 70 no opinion: 1

Isn't that the law in most (all?) states now in USA, that you need a license to possess a gun legally (ie need to be an authorised person)?

This sounds more like, in common with most polls, it shows how the manner of asking a question alters the answers given?

I'd be really interested in how the poll would go without "the police and other", and with using a construction based on "allow ..." instead of "ban ...".

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#46

Unpopular opinion: make private gun ownership illegal instead of forcing kids to be monitored to make sure they're not carrying

Or just fix the underlaying issue. Switzerland has 2 million guns on 8 million citizens. Yet no school shootings. Why don't they have school shootings and can we apply the Swiss system to the United States?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#47
post #29

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> Which bit of this are you upset with specifically?

To me the upsetting part is that these kids must feel unsafe / monitored. Which is exactly what they shouldn't go through in school, it's far from a good start in life.

But then again with all the school shootings I don't blame the security companies, it's a deep cultural/societal issue. It's similar to what happened in Europe in the last few years, now it's business as usual when soldiers in full gear + assault rifles patrol the streets in major cities or during big public events. It sucks but there isn't a perfect answer to the problem.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#48
post #6

Unpopular opinion: make private gun ownership illegal instead of forcing kids to be monitored to make sure they're not carrying

Unpopular opinion: basically no one dies by guns in schools so don't even bother with clear backpacks.

ummm, please explain?

Surely the US has by far the highest gun murder rate in schools among developed countries.

EDIT: The down votes are interesting - are you down voting because what I said is not true, or because you just don't like that it is true?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#49
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Force schools to quantify this risk against others. More kids die cycling to school than by guns.

Schools aren't responsible for kids who die cycling to school.

No, but they are responsible for not subjecting them to unreasonable policies.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#50
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion: basically no one dies by guns in schools so don't even bother with clear backpacks.

Part of the problem is not just the actual risk, but the perception of risk. People deserve to not feel like they are going to be shot when they show up to an educational institution, and that feeling has been withering away lately

That's the vast majority of the problem, to be specific, as that perception is far out of proportion to the actual risk. So address the fearmongering and contextualize how rare these incidents are, insteading of blaming gun owners and further eroding civil liberties.
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