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PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

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Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#251

Post by fencepost »

jrockway wrote: post #180
Tenoke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The merger between Kape and PIA affords PIA the resources needed to bring privacy to the mainstream. You were one of the most, if not the most successful VPN provider for years. Did you really need more resources? For what? The main benefit of PIA is the expectation for extra privacy. No matter how you look at it, selling to Kape is a strong signal that's not a priority. Similar, for hiring Karpeles to do your secur…

> You were one of the most, if not the most successful VPN provider for years. Did you really need more resources? For what? I don't know if you watch Twitch or YouTube but it seems that every streamer and video is sponsored by NordVPN. I feel like with that kind of advertising budget, it's going to be harder for companies that don't advertise as much.

There's a definite plus to bringing in people who've never used a VPN service before - a lot of them may subscribe but never actually become serious users of your service, in which case they're likely highly profitable. People who find you by reading reviews on TorrentFreak on the other hand are much more likely to chew bandwidth and possibly have multiple devices connected at once.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#252

Post by nickpsecurity »

rasengan wrote: post #4

This article and articles like this miscast Kape in an incorrect light. To be clear, in the past the company was known as CrossRider and provided a developer SDK that could be used to integrate with browsers. Unfortunately, CrossRider didn't do enough to prevent malware (like platforms these days and their fake news) and the platform was used by some bad people for bad purposes. When the new management team of CrossR…

"The merger between Kape and PIA affords PIA the resources needed"

I'm one of those people who understand the importance of reputation and integrity. One bad deal might ruin mine forever. You needed resources to expand your privacy business. Did you try and fail to partner with reputable businesses such as Mozilla, get funding from governments/foundations, etc? Did you try to get with amoral companies whose background or business wasn't harmful to privacy? And, after that, settle for the one company that was interested which could damage your brand?

I have a feeling you didn't since I'm sure there's plenty of companies, non-profits, or cooperatives that might have worked with you who don't have that background. Although I can't prove that, I see investments and partnerships all the time with organizations that raise less eyebrows. That you went with that company will undermine trust.

I'm no longer recommending PIA. I do appreciate that, before this change, your company went as far as defending its users' rights when FBI was after them. I'll still give you credit for that.

Edit re hiring security people: You also keep justifying hiring con men for second chances or doing business with intelligence assets like there were no other alternatives. I've met all kinds of security professionals and cryptographic researchers who haven't taken malicious contracts or damaged others [that I'm aware of]. Quite a few have turned down work because they're ideologically opposed to it or just don't harm others. I'm one of those. So, my next bit of skepticism is that you really couldn't find anyone better than folks like Karpeles. You could've asked here or at Black Hat and probably got a ton of candidates who might be more trustworthy with your customers' privacy.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#253

Post by protonmail »

IceWreck wrote: post #73

It's not just PIA. Nord VPN, ProtonVPN, etc all have ties to or owned by shady companies. It you want real anonymity, use tor. If you want to change your internet access location, lease a VPS, and set up OpenVPN/Wireguard on it.

This is not correct as far as Proton is concerned and easily verifiable. ProtonVPN is 100% owned by Proton Technologies AG (Switzerland) which also develops ProtonMail and is not affiliated or owned by any other company. Information about Proton is all public and visible on the Swiss commercial register: http://ge.ch/hrcintapp/externalCompanyReport.action?companyO...

The investors of Proton Technologies AG are also public information, and they include FONGIT (a Swiss non-profit foundation supported by the Swiss government), CRV (private investment firm best known for their investments in Twitter, Zendesk, etc) and the European Union, who collectively have a minority interest. Actually, the European Commission doesn't have a financial stake as their funding is non-dilutive. Whether or not these entities are shady is a matter of opinion of course, but these are all well-known public entities.

ProtonVPN was also extensively checked by Mozilla before they partnered with us last year, and they also checked into this, details here: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2018/10/22/testing-n...

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#254

Post by dbuder »

jeltz wrote: post #193
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start here (from Simon Davies, the founder of Privacy International): http://www.privacysurgeon.org/blog/incision/how-the-online-g... They are as bad as, and often indistinguishable from, the least salubrious corners of online advertising in their tracking and data gathering. Unfortunately their determination to keep feeding off addicts and keep tracking the whales is what has driven their data abuses. Responsible ga…

As someone who has worked in the online gambling industry I can say that this article is very outdated and on some points misinformed. Things have changed a lot since 2010, and he is wrong even about how things worked back then. > It is routine for sites to demand the transmission of passport and credit card scans, drivers licenses, utility bills and other personal documents. All the available evidence indicates that…

Online gambling is built on the pile of skulls adtech provides.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#255

Post by nickpsecurity »

ben_jones wrote: post #222
rasengan wrote: post #4

This article and articles like this miscast Kape in an incorrect light. To be clear, in the past the company was known as CrossRider and provided a developer SDK that could be used to integrate with browsers. Unfortunately, CrossRider didn't do enough to prevent malware (like platforms these days and their fake news) and the platform was used by some bad people for bad purposes. When the new management team of CrossR…

The bottom line is, in 2019 if any of my relatives asked me which VPN to use I would first outline the history of VPNs as a vector for malware/adware and explain to them the supreme level of trust you must have with a VPN provider as a MITM to ALL your internet activity. Only then would I highlight the benefits of VPNs in regards to internet freedoms and circumventing bad content blocks where users want to pay to acc…

"VPNs are not the type of consumer product you EVER want to have acquired by ANYBODY."

That's why I encourage these types of things to be set up as public-benefit companies, non-profits, etc chartered to do the good things and not do the bad things. At least, the obvious ones that keep recurring. General principles plus a pile of specifics as examples of them.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#256

Post by nickpsecurity »

awoodbeck wrote: post #234
icebraining wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can users verify that PIA doesn't log?

You can only infer that as the result of court case demanding logs. And even then, it would have to be born out of the discovery process that PIA was truthful, in my opinion. Yet that only gives you comfort that they hadn't maintained logs up to that point. You have no guarantees from that point forward, which is what we're all concerned about. We aren't concerned about PIA's past operations, but rather what this new…

"You can only infer that as the result of court case demanding logs. "

You can't be sure. In the Lavabit case, Lavabit argued giving up the key protecting all their users... compromising them to the FBI... would cost them customers due to damaged reputation and privacy. The FBI argued they could do it without telling them. Then, Lavabit would still look private with no financial harm. The judge agreed.

That proposal and the judge agreeing changed how I looked at a lot of companies' claims about law enforcement. I already assumed this would happen with Patriot Act requests by FBI/NSA partnership given they'd be hit with secrecy orders. I didn't see a judge straight up telling a privacy company to defraud all of its customers. I figured the order would be more narrow than that. Now, I have a blanket recommendation to avoid U.S. for privacy tech over both secret government (Patriot Act stuff) and regular, court system.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#257

Post by golergka »

> If that wasn’t enough, Crossrider’s Founder and first CEO Koby Menachemi, was part of Unit 8200 – something that can be called Israel’s NSA.

About half of my coworkers in Israeli game development companies have served there. Some wrote custom linux kernel modules, most did very low-level QA work, and in general had more or less the same skillset and level as any other coworker. Of course, they probably worked close to Stuxnet developers, but calling a typical kid, just out of his mandatory military service, a "spy" paints this in a completely different light.

Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#259

Post by Alfie81 »

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Re: PIA VPN to be acquired by malware company founded by former Israeli spy

#260

Post by C14L »

rasengan wrote: post #4

This article and articles like this miscast Kape in an incorrect light. To be clear, in the past the company was known as CrossRider and provided a developer SDK that could be used to integrate with browsers. Unfortunately, CrossRider didn't do enough to prevent malware (like platforms these days and their fake news) and the platform was used by some bad people for bad purposes. When the new management team of CrossR…

Maybe. But I won't risk it.
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