Is true hacking dead? What we lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#61

Post by atoav » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 10:45 AM UTC

geocar wrote: post #36

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11

I don't think true hacking is dead, its just lost in a sea of non-hacking. The number of students who could write code in my high school of 2000 was perhaps 35. Those 35 were amazing because they had to work to get access to a computer, so we had already eliminated everyone who was just "oh that's too hard". Of the 35 perhaps a dozen kept at it beyond one class in BASIC. In my daughter's similarly sized highschool 40…

An astonishing thing happened when we finally made it possible for everyone in the world to tell a computer what to do: We discovered nobody knows what they want the computer to do! We were surprised (if also for other reasons) because we confused the product with the means, or to paraphrase Feynman, hacking is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.

It is a mix of challenge, curiosity and (probably) the will to be in total control of a little subsection of reality.

And it certainly isn’t dead.

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#62

Post by cwingrav » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 10:50 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11

I don't think true hacking is dead, its just lost in a sea of non-hacking. The number of students who could write code in my high school of 2000 was perhaps 35. Those 35 were amazing because they had to work to get access to a computer, so we had already eliminated everyone who was just "oh that's too hard". Of the 35 perhaps a dozen kept at it beyond one class in BASIC. In my daughter's similarly sized highschool 40…

Puzzle interest may be one aspect of it, but I and others too I would assume, are in it for the creativity and fantasy. I knew basic in 2nd grade and made simple little games. Later I learned to use a hex editor to hack saved computer games. I switched to CompSci in college because of the Internet. Today, I love building projects and hacking electronics (and wish I knew more!). I never really had a thing for puzzles, just creative creation.

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#63

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 10:51 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#64

Post by lsofzz » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 10:58 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #61

geocar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An astonishing thing happened when we finally made it possible for everyone in the world to tell a computer what to do: We discovered nobody knows what they want the computer to do! We were surprised (if also for other reasons) because we confused the product with the means, or to paraphrase Feynman, hacking is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.

It is a mix of challenge, curiosity and (probably) the will to be in total control of a little subsection of reality. And it certainly isn’t dead.

> And it certainly isn’t dead.

Or to put it another way, it's alive and kicking ass :-)

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#65

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 10:58 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #61

geocar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An astonishing thing happened when we finally made it possible for everyone in the world to tell a computer what to do: We discovered nobody knows what they want the computer to do! We were surprised (if also for other reasons) because we confused the product with the means, or to paraphrase Feynman, hacking is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.

It is a mix of challenge, curiosity and (probably) the will to be in total control of a little subsection of reality. And it certainly isn’t dead.

[deleted]

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#66

Post by acoye » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 11:02 AM UTC

scaryclam wrote: post #34

erikpukinskis wrote: post #4

We’re still here. More than ever actually. There’s just more noise.

Do any communities still exist?

Probably somewhere on the other side of the looking glass … I mean freenode.

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#67

Post by tiborsaas » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 11:04 AM UTC

scaryclam wrote: post #34

erikpukinskis wrote: post #4

We’re still here. More than ever actually. There’s just more noise.

Do any communities still exist?

I've heard about an early Silicon Valley accelerator with some geeky name about functional programming has one :)

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#68

Post by z3phyr » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 11:05 AM UTC

pleasecalllater wrote: post #18

Three things: 1. I have no idea why "hacking" aka "going fast and breaking things" is so glorified while "building good reliable programs" aka "good programming" is not. 2. How come that someone thinks of himself/herself that he/she has the right to say who is a "true hacker" and who is not. 3. AND THIS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX5Xy3a2uJU Thank you Jayson.

> "hacking" aka "going fast and breaking things"

Your premise is wrong. Hacking is making things do stuff which was thought to be not possible before (like making an 8 color machine produce 16 color output by wizardry), making a computer meant for static business applications play highly interactive real time games etc (2) creating "art" from computation, peered by your equally skilled friends to get street cred and respect and your co-hackers will one-up you by creating even more beautiful art.

The second point makes the definition very subjective though. But I hope you got the jist.

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#69

Post by KaiserPro » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

Sounds like gatekeeping to me.

Hacking of yore largely was like theoretical maths. Isolated from the real world and of little practicable use, yet.

It was a closed eco system in the 70s-90s. You either had to steal or be rich to get access to a machine.

Yes, real steel from the likes of DEC, IBM, ICL et al were magic. The early days of networked OSs equally wonderful.

But.

Now, with an ESP I can have a battery powered, wirelessly networked computer to do pretty much anything I want, for $10 and power budget of 100ma.

If you want to see where low lever hacking has gone, look at the micro-controllers. They are literally taking over the world, run by no small part, by keen amateurs.

Re: Is true hacking dead? What we lost

#70

Post by barrkel » Mon, Dec 02, 2019, 11:15 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11

I don't think true hacking is dead, its just lost in a sea of non-hacking. The number of students who could write code in my high school of 2000 was perhaps 35. Those 35 were amazing because they had to work to get access to a computer, so we had already eliminated everyone who was just "oh that's too hard". Of the 35 perhaps a dozen kept at it beyond one class in BASIC. In my daughter's similarly sized highschool 40…

Puzzles don't interest me much, but composition, building and designing things does.

When hiring engineers, I sometimes worry that too much puzzle-orientation shows a bias towards "clever" solutions - and complex code - where not necessarily warranted. There's definitely a place for that kind of focus, but it's usually quite low down in the stack, and that's increasingly far away from business value these days.