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Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

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Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#91

Post by runevault »

dablya wrote: post #35
NonMint wrote: post #21

If the issue is that Apple wants 30% of all eBook sales for anything that can be viewed on the platform, that's really scummy and an abuse of standards. If instead, they just want to make sure that if you can buy it on a Kindle/whatever and read it on the iPhone that you can also BUY it from the iPhone in the first place, not such a big deal. There seems to be some confusion on this issue.

My understanding is that it is in fact Apple wanting their 30% (since kinle app already allows people to purchase books from the iPad through safari). I don't think it's a big deal as long as the additional cost is not spread to all kindle content purchasers. iPad users get the ease of use by being able to do in app purchase vs safari, it's only fair the pay the additional costs.

If you ignore the fact that in some cases amazon's cut is 30% of the total sale to begin with (all books priced from 2.99 to 9.99). So in all those cases no amazon would not find the ease of use worth it.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#92

Post by ruchi »

JunkDNA wrote: post #34
archgrove wrote: post #19

I can make no possible reading of the App Store guidelines that results in this policy - it's clearly new. I guess if Google can't make the Android App Store attractive to developers, Apple sure can. Surely, this cannot be "official" policy, or if it is, it can't be one that lasts more than a couple of weeks. It's not one of those geek-annoying App restrictions that 99% of the iOS target market wouldn't care about ev…

Or possibility number 4: Amazon removes any mention of purchasing books from the app. The way I read the statement from Apple, they are not saying that if developers offer purchasing outside the app, then they must offer in-app purchasing. They are saying that if an app offers purchasing options, those have to go through the in-app purchasing model. It's still pretty crappy, but basically, all Amazon would have to do…

I'm not sure that's right. Even if Kindle App has no purchasing option but accesses content bought on Amazon.com, it should still allow Apple's in-app purchase. Which essentially means, Kindle app is useless. See the excerpt below.

>> If an app lets users access content that they purchased via Amazon's website, for example, then that same app must also let users buy the same book via Apple's own in-app purchase system. If the app developer doesn't want to use Apple's in-app purchases to sell content, then the app can't access content purchased elsewhere either.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#93

Post by lwhi »

YooLi wrote: post #82
lwhi wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Another way of describing this; if the content is available for sale outside of the app .. it can't be accessed within the app, unless it's also available for sale via Apple's store.

What? Read their statement again. "...if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app.." It says if the app lets you purchase books from somewhere that is not the app, the app should also let users purchase through the app. Apple said nothing about "content...can't be accessed within the app, unless it's also availabl…

But if you extrapolate:

1) All possible electronic commerce is likely to utilise web-based technologies.

2) In Amazon's case, they used a mobile website to allow sale of their e-books.

3) If Apple is going to state that directing the user to a mobile website to purchase a book, constitutes an 'in-app purchase' - where is the line drawn?

4) Will app developers be able to advertise any alternative methods of purchase, within their apps, without also allowing purchase via the Appstore?

My guess is, no; they'll simply deny the app in question access to the marketplace - which will prevent users from viewing any externally bought content, that can't also be bought via the Appstore.

In-effect Apple are holding these developers over a barrel.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#95

Post by artsrc »

pedanticfreak wrote: post #28

This reminds me of the "no intermediate code" snafu that was later repealed. Apple keeps testing the boundaries of what we will tolerate because it knows it can get away with it while the competition still lags behind. This newest development sets a truly frightening precedent, though. Any subscription service that sees significant growth through their iOS app is vulnerable to Apple's tax collectors. As soon as it lo…

I don't get that they loose money on selling Kindle books. Do you have a source? Another view from here http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&#38... is:

> Although Amazon does not disclose sales or profit data for its Kindle e-reader or content, many believe it derives more profit from digital books than from its Kindle devices and say that content is a better bet for its long-term growth.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#96

Post by pedanticfreak »

artsrc wrote: post #95
pedanticfreak wrote: post #28

This reminds me of the "no intermediate code" snafu that was later repealed. Apple keeps testing the boundaries of what we will tolerate because it knows it can get away with it while the competition still lags behind. This newest development sets a truly frightening precedent, though. Any subscription service that sees significant growth through their iOS app is vulnerable to Apple's tax collectors. As soon as it lo…

I don't get that they loose money on selling Kindle books. Do you have a source? Another view from here http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&#38... is: > Although Amazon does not disclose sales or profit data for its Kindle e-reader or content, many believe it derives more profit from digital books than from its Kindle devices and say that content is a better bet for its long-term growth.

My understanding is that Amazon was guaranteeing some publishers the same profit per sale that they would get from a hardback book in exchange for allowing Amazon to fix the price at $9.99. In some cases the profit was more than the $9.99 Amazon was charging so Amazon had to pony up $1 or $2 on each sale.

I think more recently Amazon has allowed publishers to use an alternative agency model that lets the publishers set their own prices and Amazon takes a fixed percentage cut of the sale. This doesn't cause Amazon to lose money, but now publishers can sell eBooks at nearly the same price as paper books which hurts the Kindle's attractiveness and slows adoption.

Regardless, this is an unworkable situation Apple has constructed. Amazon barely makes 30% of the sale price of each book if it even makes that much at all. It can hardly afford to give away its entire fee and then some to Apple.

This is either a strong arm attempt to get Amazon to agree to a strategic agreement for a fraction of the revenue or Apple is simply trying to destroy the Amazon Kindle app entirely. Either way Apple wins and Amazon loses. I suppose consumers can come out ahead if the strategic agreement allows in app purchasing of Kindle books for the same price, but it could also be bad if the iOS Kindle app disappears.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#98

Post by zmmmmm »

ruchi wrote: post #92
JunkDNA wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or possibility number 4: Amazon removes any mention of purchasing books from the app. The way I read the statement from Apple, they are not saying that if developers offer purchasing outside the app, then they must offer in-app purchasing. They are saying that if an app offers purchasing options, those have to go through the in-app purchasing model. It's still pretty crappy, but basically, all Amazon would have to do…

I'm not sure that's right. Even if Kindle App has no purchasing option but accesses content bought on Amazon.com, it should still allow Apple's in-app purchase. Which essentially means, Kindle app is useless. See the excerpt below. >> If an app lets users access content that they purchased via Amazon's website, for example, then that same app must also let users buy the same book via Apple's own in-app purchase syste…

In the extreme this would seem to impact just about any app accesses a paid service and loads content from it at run time. Eg. I know a number of apps that host the browser to avoid having to go through the Apple review process for content updates (or even for minor UI updates). If it can be interpreted as "content" and there is money involved at any point in accessing it then you could fall foul of this.

I guess Apple will play the usual game of letting 99% of people get away with this and just use it strategically for anti-competitive purposes against particular companies.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#99

Post by wildwood »

pedanticfreak wrote: post #96
artsrc wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get that they loose money on selling Kindle books. Do you have a source? Another view from here http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&#38... is: > Although Amazon does not disclose sales or profit data for its Kindle e-reader or content, many believe it derives more profit from digital books than from its Kindle devices and say that content is a better bet for its long-term growth.

My understanding is that Amazon was guaranteeing some publishers the same profit per sale that they would get from a hardback book in exchange for allowing Amazon to fix the price at $9.99. In some cases the profit was more than the $9.99 Amazon was charging so Amazon had to pony up $1 or $2 on each sale. I think more recently Amazon has allowed publishers to use an alternative agency model that lets the publishers s…

I wonder if Apple might use this as a way of phasing out BookShelf and making the Kindle app the standard reading software for the iPhone. If the Kindle app shipped on every new iPhone, that might be worth it to Amazon to give Apple a respectable cut of the action.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#100

Post by burgerbrain »

tomelders wrote: post #61
kirbman89 wrote: post #59

The evil empire is dictating its power over developers. Will this lead to Apple killing our innovation and creativity? It's time for us developers to revolt and move to an open source platform!

The second they start making second rate products, I'll jump ship with you.

You sell out cheap.
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