Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#11

Post by mey » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:54 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem like I'm overreacting or hating on Apple or anything like that, but this seems to be in a whole new realm of greedy/controlling for Apple. Or is it really reasonable to force apps to use your payment platform? edit: It seems in other threads on the front page that this is likely Sony blowing things out of proportion. Most of the "news" is all speculation and discussion. I suppose we'll have to wa…

The only thing unreasonable is that lack of consistency. A 3rd party enters the app market under certain rules, some quite core to their business model. Then Apple changes those rules.

Apple of course is smart enough to reserve the right to make such changes, but apparently not smart enough to not exercise it in idiotic fashion. These actions concern me personally as the line between mobile embedded systems and computers running a traditional OS become blurred, primarily as a software developer.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#12

Post by thisisananth » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #8

This doesn't seem ridiculous to me as a user . I read this as saying is that if an app plays content I can purchase elsewhere, then Apple wants to be able to also sell the content in the app. If I have it correct, I as a developer can make a maze application and sell mazes on my own web site, but I must also give users the option of buying them in the app and fork over 30% to Apple. If I do this, it's up to me to con…

"Apple also allegedly told Sony that the app couldn't access content purchased on other Sony Reader devices, which is where most of the outrage was focused" - I think this is a big problem. If I have bought the book from amazon I should be able to read it everywhere isn't it?

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#13

Post by YooLi » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

What Apple actually said (emphasis mine):

"We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase."

What ars interprets that to mean (emphasis mine):

"If an app lets users access content that they purchased via Amazon's website, for example, then that same app must also let users buy the same book via Apple's own in-app purchase system"

That's not at all what Apple said. Apple said if the app lets you buy books outside of the app, i.e. you click the buy button inside the app and are then sent to the webpage to purchase the book, then the app must also let you purchase the book without leaving the app by using in-app purchases. Apple says nothing about not letting users access content they paid for from other sources.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#14

Post by raganwald » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

thisisananth wrote: post #12

raganwald wrote: post #8

This doesn't seem ridiculous to me as a user . I read this as saying is that if an app plays content I can purchase elsewhere, then Apple wants to be able to also sell the content in the app. If I have it correct, I as a developer can make a maze application and sell mazes on my own web site, but I must also give users the option of buying them in the app and fork over 30% to Apple. If I do this, it's up to me to con…

"Apple also allegedly told Sony that the app couldn't access content purchased on other Sony Reader devices, which is where most of the outrage was focused" - I think this is a big problem. If I have bought the book from amazon I should be able to read it everywhere isn't it?

See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2166728

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#15

Post by relic17 » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

juiceandjuice wrote: post #2

It feels like another FTC investigation over App store policies could arise out of this.

I think you may be right. But that would be unfortunate, as I don't think the FTC should meddle in Apple's business. I think Apple's management should have the right to set any policy it considers relevant - after all, this is their platform. So, I hope the FTC takes no action.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#16

Post by jws » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:57 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #5

I don't want to seem like I'm overreacting or hating on Apple or anything like that, but this seems to be in a whole new realm of greedy/controlling for Apple. Or is it really reasonable to force apps to use your payment platform? edit: It seems in other threads on the front page that this is likely Sony blowing things out of proportion. Most of the "news" is all speculation and discussion. I suppose we'll have to wa…

The consistent, simple user experience is the key to the platform. I think it's reasonable to require it. I know as a customer I don't want to be hassling with multiple payment accounts.

Presumably it is permissible for Sony to bump the price up on in app purchases to cover the 30% "shipping and handling" charge from Apple. I wonder if they can show it as "Apple™ brand Shipping and Handling" on the screen.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#17

Post by 37prime » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:57 PM UTC

Doesn't the Ars Technica headline sounds too sensationalistic?

I'd like to be the guy from The Neutral Planet and sit this one out until it sorts itself out.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#18

Post by YooLi » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

thisisananth wrote: post #12

raganwald wrote: post #8

This doesn't seem ridiculous to me as a user . I read this as saying is that if an app plays content I can purchase elsewhere, then Apple wants to be able to also sell the content in the app. If I have it correct, I as a developer can make a maze application and sell mazes on my own web site, but I must also give users the option of buying them in the app and fork over 30% to Apple. If I do this, it's up to me to con…

"Apple also allegedly told Sony that the app couldn't access content purchased on other Sony Reader devices, which is where most of the outrage was focused" - I think this is a big problem. If I have bought the book from amazon I should be able to read it everywhere isn't it?

Apple's official response:

"We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase."

It's talking about purchasing from inside the app, not access content that you purchased somewhere else.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#19

Post by archgrove » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

I can make no possible reading of the App Store guidelines that results in this policy - it's clearly new. I guess if Google can't make the Android App Store attractive to developers, Apple sure can. Surely, this cannot be "official" policy, or if it is, it can't be one that lasts more than a couple of weeks. It's not one of those geek-annoying App restrictions that 99% of the iOS target market wouldn't care about even if they knew it - this one affects every end user, and you can bet will be widely publicised by every non-Apple tablet maker.

Realistically, three things can happen to people with App under this policy. Take, e.g., Kindle.

1) They withdraw the Kindle application 2) The add In-App purchasing 3) The add In-App purchasing, but with a 30% price hike

Frankly, 2 is very unlikely - 30% is probably their entire profit margin on the sale. 3 is possible, but makes every Android tablet look vastly better to new purchasers ("The same apps from iOS, but with content 30% cheaper!). 1 is also quite possible - they just EOL it and say "For future Amazon purchases, please grab a Kindle or Android tablet), thus showing a huge chunk of Apples target market a big banner for the competition.

I suppose there's another alternative: that this becomes one of the annoying "Not for big player" rules that they just have a sub-rosa agreement with B & N/Amazon to never enforce. That in itself is pretty underhand.

Overall, my favoured interpretation is this is a re-run of the "Nothing but Objective C Apps in the Store" debacle. Masses of bad press, a dent in developer confidence, and a rescinded policy within a month or two. Apple really are their own worst enemy with this stuff.

Re: Apple responds: we want a cut of Amazon, Sony e-book sales

#20

Post by woodson » Tue, Feb 01, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #8

This doesn't seem ridiculous to me as a user . I read this as saying is that if an app plays content I can purchase elsewhere, then Apple wants to be able to also sell the content in the app. If I have it correct, I as a developer can make a maze application and sell mazes on my own web site, but I must also give users the option of buying them in the app and fork over 30% to Apple. If I do this, it's up to me to con…

AFAIK Amazon uses kind of a loophole by directing the user to their site in Safari to buy Kindle books (that's how it was explained to me, i don't own an iPad or used the app). I don't see what's not ridiculous about Apple's desire to receive 30% of that money. And I as a (potential) user don't appreciate it as I'll end up paying for Apple's cut.