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The world needs more search engines

0x65.dev

131–140 of 549 posts

Re: The world needs more search engines

#131
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems more like an advertisement/justification/explanation for their search engine?

Yes, according to the post, the "primary benefit" of using Cliqz is so that you can get access to their search engine, which is exclusive to their browser.

That is factually incorrect: https://beta.cliqz.com

Re: The world needs more search engines

#132
> There are only very few truly independent search engines in the world. Google, Bing, Yandex, and Baidu are the best known ones. Most other players only white label results from those four and are dependent on them and their business model. Or they are so localized and small that they do not offer a credible alternative. Nevertheless, we at Cliqz are also trying to build one: over the last five years, with around 100 people, we have built our own search engine beta.cliqz.com from scratch. It’s completely independent, it does not use anyone’s technology nor anyone’s business model. It’s built end-to-end from collecting, crawling, and analyzing data up to actually showing results all this with privacy by design. We’re quite proud of it. And each day until this Christmas, we will explain one core piece.

I look forward to reading the rest of the series.

I see no mention of their technology being open source, which makes it a lot less interesting as an alternative, to me.

Their search UI seems OK, once I turned off all of the noisy widgets, including the terrible pretty background image. I wish this trend would go away, but I'm glad they provided an option to turn it off.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#133
post #71

It’s really sad to see the anti-success rhetoric. I was around during the “search wars”, and what’s usually forgotten is that well, they were by far the best behaved as a corporate entity. This “romantization” of this ideal state, devoid of historical context or acknowledgement of the world we live in is extremwly counter productive. Should google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple do better? Absofuckinglutely!!! Regulate them…

> Even worse, likely in a country that won’t match your same values of “freedom”

For many people in the world, the US already is a country that matches this exact description - what with toothless antitrust laws, anti-union actions being tolerated, and what the ICE camps look like is something we don't even have to talk about.

Sure, China would be worse, but you should strive for more than just "the second worst developed country(tm)"

In fact, yours is the perfect argument why we in Europe should try to end the dominance of Google and break it up.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#134

How do you design regulation that holds the giants accountable, doesn't impair smaller companies' ability to enter/innovate in the space, and isn't quickly corruptible by the (well-resourced) companies you are trying to control? We're better served by breaking them up and enforcing and strengthening the pro-competition laws on the books. The government has a pretty mixed record with regulating industry, and a far mor…

My biggest problem is: How do you break up a software system? I understand how you break up a company that mines ore, produces steel, builds railways, runs transportation - those are all separable ventures that can negotiate contracts almost as easily as when they had a single owner.

But the tech giants run a single system: Amazon in the delivery, FB in the social graph (DB), Google in the knowledge graph. Those would be incredibly hard technically to break up. The less technically complicated split would mean that one new company has all the revenue and the other has all the costs.

I haven’t heard any credible proposal on how this “breakup” would actually physically work. If anyone has links to good sources I’d be interested.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#135

I looked into the Cliqz browser a few years a ago. Back then they claimed to be a privacy respecting alternative to Chrome. What I found back then is that they sent every keystroke I type in the URL bar to their own servers. They outright lied about that in their terms. For me their mission is pretty clear: Google ate Burda's ad cookies and now they are trying to get their hands into the cookie jar again. Given that…

They have an autosuggest feature in the browser which shows search results as you type. Goes without saying that this requires a request per keystroke. If each request contained a unique user id, that would be concerning, but that is not the case. that the search query itself goes to their servers is just common sense, but those requests are anonymized. (Disclaimer: I'm a former employee)

Re: The world needs more search engines

#136
I’m not sure I agree that we need a new google, or to break up google.

But we shouldn’t trust google, what trust existed has been repeatedly damaged by their desire to grow and profit.

In my opinion we need transparency. Why is a result / snippet number 1, 2, 3, etc for a query?

“The algorithm did it” is not an answer.

Any new search engine should be accountable for the results they provide, and there should be a mechanism to dispute the results.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#138
post #71

It’s really sad to see the anti-success rhetoric. I was around during the “search wars”, and what’s usually forgotten is that well, they were by far the best behaved as a corporate entity. This “romantization” of this ideal state, devoid of historical context or acknowledgement of the world we live in is extremwly counter productive. Should google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple do better? Absofuckinglutely!!! Regulate them…

> It’s really sad to see the anti-success rhetoric.

The title may be, but the article was not. Was a reasoned statement for why those folks bothered to build another search engine.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#139

How do you design regulation that holds the giants accountable, doesn't impair smaller companies' ability to enter/innovate in the space, and isn't quickly corruptible by the (well-resourced) companies you are trying to control? We're better served by breaking them up and enforcing and strengthening the pro-competition laws on the books. The government has a pretty mixed record with regulating industry, and a far mor…

My biggest problem is: How do you break up a software system? I understand how you break up a company that mines ore, produces steel, builds railways, runs transportation - those are all separable ventures that can negotiate contracts almost as easily as when they had a single owner. But the tech giants run a single system: Amazon in the delivery, FB in the social graph (DB), Google in the knowledge graph. Those woul…

Easy, stop letting them dump other services for free on the backs of their other businesses. Search can stay ad-supported. Youtube, Gmail, Drive, Cloud, Stadia, Android, News? Should all be broken out into their own businesses and forced to be profitable on their own. As it is, nobody can enter those spaces without being willing to lose hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars.

Re: The world needs more search engines

#140
Was looking at that Cliqz company out of curiosity and while browsing their job page (https://cliqz.com/en/about/careers/campaign-manager) saw this:

"MyOffrz is opening a brand new marketing discipline: Browser Based Performance Marketing. This innovative technology makes it possible to show users discounts, special offers and valuable information with true added value within the browser. As a 100% subsidiary of Cliqz GmbH..."

"These include independent search engine, browser and privacy technologies as well as new techniques for responsible advertising and statistical data collection for the benefit of all users."

Seems a bit odd for a company that brands itself as a privacy search engine.

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