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Illusory Truth Effect

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Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#51

Post by bananamerica »

lolc wrote: post #39
bananamerica wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. But I don’t that’s fixable in my friends case. It’s a long story :P

While I find the book to be written in a sarcastic tone, some people take it at face value. Your friend might be among them and enjoy the read in a very different way. Choice quote: "and if he emerges victorious from a contest, he owes it very often not so much to the correctness of his judgment in stating his proposition, as to the cunning and address with which he defended it. "

Thanks... even though you suggested it for my friend, I think I'll just read it myself.

He's extremely intelligent (which makes his irrational tendencies more annoying hahaha), but he simply doesn't read anything I give him. Oh, well :P

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#52

Post by golemotron »

the_af wrote: post #43
golemotron wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When references disagree with you about a definition, it's time to realize that there can be more than one.

Can you point me to said references? I'm ready to acknowledge them, but I don't see them. The article in Wikipedia (linked to at the start of this thread) is exclusively about the use of the term by the Nazis and how they coined it.

The wikipedia article identified it as the name of a propaganda technique. There's nothing that restricts the use of that technique to anyone in particular. Consider that people other than the inventor of the hammer can use hammers.

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#53

Post by the_af »

golemotron wrote: post #52
the_af wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to said references? I'm ready to acknowledge them, but I don't see them. The article in Wikipedia (linked to at the start of this thread) is exclusively about the use of the term by the Nazis and how they coined it.

The wikipedia article identified it as the name of a propaganda technique. There's nothing that restricts the use of that technique to anyone in particular. Consider that people other than the inventor of the hammer can use hammers.

Yes, I understand this, and that's something that sometimes happens with words. But the use of "Big Lie" in this context (i.e. capitalized, a concept about lying) is like the use of "Final Solution": sure, it could be used in another context different to what the Nazis meant by it, but how probable is that? All the examples in Wikipedia are Nazi-related.

I'll be happy to stand corrected if you can point me to a single use of this concept of "Big Lie" -- referred to unequivocally as the concept we're debating here, of telling a lie so big people won't accept it's not true -- that does not refer to the alleged "betrayal of Germany" meant by Hitler, or its related Nazi myths and propaganda.

At this point I'm only asking you for an example. To be honest I don't think there is, just as there is no other use of Final Solution, but of course I can be proven wrong.

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#54

Post by golemotron »

the_af wrote: post #53
golemotron wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wikipedia article identified it as the name of a propaganda technique. There's nothing that restricts the use of that technique to anyone in particular. Consider that people other than the inventor of the hammer can use hammers.

Yes, I understand this, and that's something that sometimes happens with words. But the use of "Big Lie" in this context (i.e. capitalized, a concept about lying) is like the use of "Final Solution": sure, it could be used in another context different to what the Nazis meant by it, but how probable is that? All the examples in Wikipedia are Nazi-related. I'll be happy to stand corrected if you can point me to a singl…

That isn't hard at all. This one refers to it as technique used by the Soviet also.

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/...

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#55

Post by eximius »

Merrill wrote: post #17
teddyh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lawyer’s job is not to actually find out the truth, like a scientist. A lawyer’s conclusion will not be tested by a harsh reality with which you can experiment. A lawyer’s job is entirely to convince other people of things. If people are convinced, the job is done; there are no further repercussions if the truth turns out to differ. Therefore, your lawyer friend likely has never thought about what logic is, or what…

There is also a distinction between logical and quantitative thinking. Some people operate mainly out of a "whether or not" mindset, and they are not inclined to think in terms of "how much", "to what degree", or "how likely". Scientists tend to be quantitative thinkers, although computer scientists are quite often logical thinkers.

Perhaps computer scientists, but software engineering is almost entirely about trade offs, so a software engineer who can't talk in those terms won't succeed at more than basic levels.

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#56

Post by the_af »

golemotron wrote: post #54
the_af wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I understand this, and that's something that sometimes happens with words. But the use of "Big Lie" in this context (i.e. capitalized, a concept about lying) is like the use of "Final Solution": sure, it could be used in another context different to what the Nazis meant by it, but how probable is that? All the examples in Wikipedia are Nazi-related. I'll be happy to stand corrected if you can point me to a singl…

That isn't hard at all. This one refers to it as technique used by the Soviet also. - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/...

Thanks for the example. I wasn't aware of the use of the term in US politics/journalism. In my defense, I'm not from the US and while I of course follow some of the drama they have going over there, I'm not always familiar with the details.

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#57

Post by golemotron »

the_af wrote: post #56
golemotron wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't hard at all. This one refers to it as technique used by the Soviet also. - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/...

Thanks for the example. I wasn't aware of the use of the term in US politics/journalism. In my defense, I'm not from the US and while I of course follow some of the drama they have going over there, I'm not always familiar with the details.

I'm glad I could help.

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#58

Post by mistermann »

ColonelSanders wrote: post #41

If you like this area of study I recommend studying object relations and reification. Object relations is all about how we strive for consistency in how we observe the world. It helps explain how people react and understand things. Reificaction is also a really cool tool to bring in since when people go around repeating some thing. Hm, like "gig economy". Like you're supposed to sit there and just accept this loaded…

> If you like this area of study I recommend studying object relations and reification.

> Object relations is all about how we strive for consistency in how we observe the world. It helps explain how people react and understand things.

I am very interested in this sort of thing, are there any resources or names you can recommend looking into?

Re: Illusory Truth Effect

#59

Post by wayoutthere »

the_af wrote: post #32
krapp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cognitive bias is the effect of the big lie. Anti-semitism was already prevalent throughout Western culture at that time, and so the lie was easier to believe because of pre-existing cultural prejudice, and later because the propaganda was simply inescapable.

I'm truly not trying to be dense, but the "Big Lie" (according to Hitler) is something allegedly perpetrated by the Jews against Germany's military, by "blaming" it for the downfall of the nation. "The lie" to what you seem to be referring to doesn't seem to be the the "Big Lie" itself but simply antisemitism ("the Jews are to blame"). These are separate things. It requires antisemitism to believe the Big Lie exists…

I don't think this confusion is unintentional. It's a classic fascist tactic to muddy the definition of words, phrases and symbols used by their opponents in order to force the conversation into emotional arguments. You can't have a rational argument when nobody agrees on the definition of the thing you're arguing about.
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