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India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

reuters.com

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Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#81

Post by naruvimama »

looping__lui wrote: post #64
naruvimama wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an Indian living in Europe. The supermarkets here charge you the maximum you would be willing to pay, even if it meant half the products will be thrown out in the dumpster, which has itself started "dumpster diving" as a culture. The prices in India is generally insanely low, because the tax payers subsidise it for the poor or the poor themselves take a hit at the margin because the consumers are simply too poor…

Europe has among the lowest food prices in the developed world. If you spend 3-5 EUR on ingredients you get a really healthy meal... Agricultural products are usually taxed below 10% and the agricultural sector is heavily subsidized; I would suspect that farmers in India live closer to the poverty line than in Europe - maybe that explains part of the differences for prices of raw materials; supply chain certainly is…

You are missing my point which is "foreigners aren't being ripped off just because they pay more than the locals". The locals pay for the subsidies directly or indirectly. Think of it as tourist tax (charged in some countries of Europe) if that still bothers you.

To your point above, I do appreciate the quality of life in Europe. However, even the most conscientious among the Europeans - the Nordics are not anymore greener than the american, it is largely a feel good window dressing.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#82

Post by yipbub »

Lucadg wrote: post #52
yipbub wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the "I never bothered to learn the actual fare from a local friend" tax. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty trivial to get around. It's definitely not exclusive to Indians. “taking advantage of foreigners is ok because they have the money” is not something most people believe. There is a large population that lives below the poverty line and will overcharge anyone who can and will take it. Yes, we hav…

I've seen a shop owner in Gokarna cleaning very carefully the shop and then getting an icecream and throwing the paper right at his own doorstep. I've seen a lady in a second class train in Mumbai throwing plastic out of the window. And many other similar things. It's a cultural thing. Rome is dirty, milan is less and Munich is clean. It's cultural. Period.

Yes, it's partly cultural. It's also partly the Broken Window Syndrome[0]. People don't yet understand the value of keeping the surroundings clean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#83

Post by yipbub »

looping__lui wrote: post #38
yipbub wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the "I never bothered to learn the actual fare from a local friend" tax. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty trivial to get around. It's definitely not exclusive to Indians. “taking advantage of foreigners is ok because they have the money” is not something most people believe. There is a large population that lives below the poverty line and will overcharge anyone who can and will take it. Yes, we hav…

I studied at an IIT in India for quite some time (loved the institution and the student body). I’ve seen more than most people I guess (from Ladakh to Mumbai to Varanasi). In places without tourists people were generally honest. The street vendor living off a few rupees each day for bananas would not take a rupee too much. I wish I could believe the “the dumb tourist tax is helping the needy and poor” - but it only f…

I agree that the attitude you're describing is the bane of India. We hate it too. The police steal from us too. We have strategies to adapt to its presence.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#84

Post by yipbub »

ReptileMan wrote: post #36
yipbub wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, every stakeholder in this vertical is an at-will participant, with no compulsion to stay if the economics do not work out That's not true. There are only 2 aggregators to choose from. Staying off one is not a feasible option for most. > the government is baselessly capping their earnings. They are not capping earning, they are capping percentage of fares. The cab driver puts in most of the cost. > Encour…

I don't know. With the Ubers you don't have the network effects as strongly. As long as the ride if safe, you will pick up the cheapest for given comfort level and be done with it. Cost of switching for the user is 0. And cost of switching for drivers is probably not high since any serfdom agreement for freelancers can be struck down as invalid.

What I mean is that it's very hard for any new company to compete. It's also a very bad bet for any VC to back them.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#85

Post by looping__lui »

naruvimama wrote: post #81
looping__lui wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has among the lowest food prices in the developed world. If you spend 3-5 EUR on ingredients you get a really healthy meal... Agricultural products are usually taxed below 10% and the agricultural sector is heavily subsidized; I would suspect that farmers in India live closer to the poverty line than in Europe - maybe that explains part of the differences for prices of raw materials; supply chain certainly is…

You are missing my point which is "foreigners aren't being ripped off just because they pay more than the locals". The locals pay for the subsidies directly or indirectly. Think of it as tourist tax (charged in some countries of Europe) if that still bothers you. To your point above, I do appreciate the quality of life in Europe. However, even the most conscientious among the Europeans - the Nordics are not anymore g…

I really wish I could think of it as a “tourist tax” benefiting the needy. But I rather have the feeling “its ending up in the pockets of the rich, powerful and corrupt”. So misses the point.

Prices for museums etc. ARE in fact much higher for tourists (factor 5-10x usually if I recall). In a sense the tourists probably subsidize many cultural sites for the Indian population (which is fair).

The energy consumption in the US is twice as high as in Europe per capita - eyeballing the numbers I believe India is not exactly green either (rural areas without any access to electricity etc. distort the numbers unless you want to keep those people “in the dark”...)

But it’s not only energy consumption - it’s also the passionate “trashing and burning of trash” that doesn’t do the Indian environment any good.

Delhi, Mumbai etc. - the air has become more and more toxic over the years.

I don’t want to start a “who is better who is worse” - but the “I only care for myself and nobody else” mentality affects all aspects from tourism to environment and harms the people themselves. That was the entire point.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#86

Post by TeMPOraL »

foogazi wrote: post #80
TeMPOraL wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the regular people in the city were very happy that they didn't experience sudden shortage of taxis, coupled with an extreme surge in price. Meanwhile, the spectators from the sport event were incentivized to choose the more efficient means of transport. Looking at it from the systems level, I'm not at all convinced that when a mass event spikes the demand for taxis, having drivers go to that event chasi…

Yes, that is a good point - there is a ceiling on price But when demand spikes in their area they are also hurt because the taxi fleet won’t respond

That's true. But they have a chance of some service, vs. no service at all - so the degradation is more gradual. Meanwhile, if there's a reserve supply of drivers who don't usually bother, at least some of them will join up, because even with a set rate, a demand spike means there's much less delay between orders.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#87

Post by TeMPOraL »

foogazi wrote: post #79
dpiers wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not exactly how it works. The primary function of surge isn’t to redistribute a fixed pool of drivers - it’s to incentivize additional drivers to go online in an area with excess demand. For example, it used to be that surge would spike insanely high on big days like Halloween and New Years Eve because demand was drastically higher than supply. Once drivers saw other people making 8-10x surge, more people star…

Yes that was part of my thought too In response to a pricing surge I expected more drivers to be incentivized to get out of bed at 11PM and make more money But if that hour of work at 11pm is worth the same as waking up 8 the next day then they lose out on thousands of people willing to pay surge pricing

> In response to a pricing surge I expected more drivers to be incentivized to get out of bed at 11PM and make more money

That's true. But they also may be incentivized by demand surge in itself - when the demand overwhelms supply, they can earn maximum effective hourly rate, which is not the case when the demand is roughly matching the supply.

Adding surge pricing on top of that means wealthy people get prioritized, which is a separate effect and one that can be considered a) unfair, and b) disrupting to the regular city life, especially if the attendees of a mass event that caused the demand spike are wealthier on average than the regular citizens.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#88

Post by rrrazdan »

llampx wrote: post #57
rrrazdan wrote: post #49

I see lots of people assuming that the drivers are in a debt trap. Its auto debt. They can just default and go home. The bank will take their car. I have talked to multiple Uber/Ola drivers. Sure the economics aren't as good now. But they are still better than alternatives. That's the sad truth. Unless people can get them better jobs, Uber/Ola will have to do.

Its India. They might get a few broken limbs in the repo process. Its not as easy as you make it sound to walk out on a loan.

I live in India so I don’t understand what you mean by “Its India”.

No nationalized bank( majority of auto loans) will use a coercive process. Hell no private bank will use one. RBI has clamped on that practice as illegal in 2010. Worse case is the bank repos the car and auctions it.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#89

Post by rrrazdan »

rajaganesh87 wrote: post #53
rrrazdan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's auto debt. The car will be taken by the bank. What else can the bank do? The truth is that cab drivers are making a livelihood, in fact a much better livelihood than they were making without Uber and Ola.

> much better livelihood than they were making without Uber and Ola Source please. Also can you quantify "much better"?

I think my assertion is much more likely than yours that people were in higher paying jobs and moved to Uber/Ola, a lower paying job, so you should give a source for that.

Nevertheless the source is my twice daily ride with Uber and talking to the drivers. Most of the drivers are youngsters from villages with no degrees and no skills now making a living. They also don’t own the car and drive for someone else. The fact that the Uber/Ola commission is able to support the driver and owner should tell you something.

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