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India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

reuters.com

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Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#51

Post by looping__lui »

eklavya wrote: post #43
looping__lui wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied at an IIT in India for quite some time (loved the institution and the student body). I’ve seen more than most people I guess (from Ladakh to Mumbai to Varanasi). In places without tourists people were generally honest. The street vendor living off a few rupees each day for bananas would not take a rupee too much. I wish I could believe the “the dumb tourist tax is helping the needy and poor” - but it only f…

Yeah, no. India is a democracy, start with that.

I live in Europe so I’m generally happy with our political system. If I ever was to argue democracy is a bad idea - I would probably start with India as an example why it doesn’t work...

I understand that personal preferences may vary and people on HN probably enjoy a good portion of China bashing; but if I had to chose - it would always be China over India for me. Healthcare, education, social mobility, equality between men and women, legal system: I can’t think of any reason why I would prefer India over China.

I’m happy that thanks to Modi there now are toilets in India - but there is a lot to catch up still...

China has lifted more people out of poverty than the rest of the world combined.

In 2018, almost 1000 people got killed by police in the US. Not a great statistic either...

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#52

Post by Lucadg »

yipbub wrote: post #29
looping__lui wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a pretty arrogant and very Indian thing to say. 1) It’s not tourists or foreigners taking advantage of other Indians - it is Indians. Indian people disrespect and mistreat each other to an extend I have never seen anywhere else in the world. 2) It is not tourists who set the prices for taxi meters - it’s the Indian cities or governments; yet it is Indian cab drivers who often believe they stand above the Law…

It's called the "I never bothered to learn the actual fare from a local friend" tax. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty trivial to get around. It's definitely not exclusive to Indians. “taking advantage of foreigners is ok because they have the money” is not something most people believe. There is a large population that lives below the poverty line and will overcharge anyone who can and will take it. Yes, we hav…

I've seen a shop owner in Gokarna cleaning very carefully the shop and then getting an icecream and throwing the paper right at his own doorstep. I've seen a lady in a second class train in Mumbai throwing plastic out of the window. And many other similar things. It's a cultural thing. Rome is dirty, milan is less and Munich is clean. It's cultural. Period.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#53

Post by rajaganesh87 »

rrrazdan wrote: post #47
biased_coin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not easy for drivers to quit given the debt that they've taken on. It is tougher to operate as an independent taxi driver than to be on a platform. Many of the drivers I have spoken to have migrated from smaller cities and I doubt it would be easy for them to operate independently.

It's auto debt. The car will be taken by the bank. What else can the bank do? The truth is that cab drivers are making a livelihood, in fact a much better livelihood than they were making without Uber and Ola.

> much better livelihood than they were making without Uber and Ola

Source please. Also can you quantify "much better"?

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#54

Post by rusticpenn »

throwGuardian wrote: post #19
sumgame wrote: post #11

If you do the math in India, the drivers were basically not earning any money last year. They spend about 30% of their income of debt. Another 30-40% on fuel and maintenance cost. Then 20% charged by Ola and Uber. There’s other miscellaneous fees that creep up plus insurance every year which atleast takes another 10%. So they take home around 10%. That 10% has to pay for food, rent, children’s education, etc. The arg…

If this were true, drives would quit en-mass. This is entirely an at-will engagement, any party can back out at any time if things don't work out

The problem is that the alternatives are not attracting consumers. There are "call taxis" which take around 5% commission and are considered as the relatively better alternative by the drivers. There are several strikes against Uber and Ola by the drivers in the last few months.

Drivers can leave Uber/Ola only if the Consumers also do.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#56

Post by noncoml »

yipbub wrote: post #29
looping__lui wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a pretty arrogant and very Indian thing to say. 1) It’s not tourists or foreigners taking advantage of other Indians - it is Indians. Indian people disrespect and mistreat each other to an extend I have never seen anywhere else in the world. 2) It is not tourists who set the prices for taxi meters - it’s the Indian cities or governments; yet it is Indian cab drivers who often believe they stand above the Law…

It's called the "I never bothered to learn the actual fare from a local friend" tax. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty trivial to get around. It's definitely not exclusive to Indians. “taking advantage of foreigners is ok because they have the money” is not something most people believe. There is a large population that lives below the poverty line and will overcharge anyone who can and will take it. Yes, we hav…

> It's called the "I never bothered to learn the actual fare from a local friend" tax.

Victim blaming much?

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#57

Post by llampx »

rrrazdan wrote: post #49

I see lots of people assuming that the drivers are in a debt trap. Its auto debt. They can just default and go home. The bank will take their car. I have talked to multiple Uber/Ola drivers. Sure the economics aren't as good now. But they are still better than alternatives. That's the sad truth. Unless people can get them better jobs, Uber/Ola will have to do.

Its India. They might get a few broken limbs in the repo process. Its not as easy as you make it sound to walk out on a loan.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#58

Post by pritambaral »

thrwe4234safd wrote: post #48
nindalf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> famously fleecing Fleecing who? Natives would never pay more than a dollar or two for a short ride, and never more than 10-20% more than the “fair” value. It’s even better in places like Mumbai, where everyone uses a standard meter. Tourists would pay 10x but in my experience they don’t even notice or care they’re getting fleeced because $10 for a short (5-6km) trip is a reasonable price to them.

> Natives would never pay more than a dollar or two for a short ride, and never more than 10-20% more than the “fair” value. It’s even better in places like Mumbai, where everyone uses a standard meter. Please. Autowallahs have their own versions of "surge pricing", which is even more frustrating and non-transparent. Night time ? Triple rate. Going to a residential area ? Double rate, because the vehicle need to retu…

Not in Mumbai.

Source: I'm a resident.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#59

Post by naruvimama »

looping__lui wrote: post #24
nindalf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show me the tourist who had a problem paying $10 for a ride across town. It’s a rounding error for people used to paying 2-3x that rate normally. I have probably taken rickshaws as much as you have but I don’t share your contempt for them. They’re doing a difficult job and they’re charging very little for it. You complain so much about their attitude but do you complain about the customer who refuses to pay mo…

That is a pretty arrogant and very Indian thing to say. 1) It’s not tourists or foreigners taking advantage of other Indians - it is Indians. Indian people disrespect and mistreat each other to an extend I have never seen anywhere else in the world. 2) It is not tourists who set the prices for taxi meters - it’s the Indian cities or governments; yet it is Indian cab drivers who often believe they stand above the Law…

I am an Indian living in Europe. The supermarkets here charge you the maximum you would be willing to pay, even if it meant half the products will be thrown out in the dumpster, which has itself started "dumpster diving" as a culture.

The prices in India is generally insanely low, because the tax payers subsidise it for the poor or the poor themselves take a hit at the margin because the consumers are simply too poor to pay.

An example of tax payer subsidy is when the entry to a museum is 10 or 20 cents or public transports where tickets have an upper limit around 40-50 cents. The poor subsidising the market price is when the street vendor or vegetable market works on a thin margin simply because they can not sell for any higher.

Westerner especially Europeans must realise that they are being ripped off everyday by their own government & businesses which are focused only on profit maximisation instead of value to the consumer.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#60

Post by osrec »

sumgame wrote: post #11

If you do the math in India, the drivers were basically not earning any money last year. They spend about 30% of their income of debt. Another 30-40% on fuel and maintenance cost. Then 20% charged by Ola and Uber. There’s other miscellaneous fees that creep up plus insurance every year which atleast takes another 10%. So they take home around 10%. That 10% has to pay for food, rent, children’s education, etc. The arg…

It is a rather dire situation indeed. I saw a documentary on Uber drivers in India, and a few of them had been convinced to take on crippling levels of debt. When demand dropped (and number of Uber drivers increased) this eventually caused them to take their own lives.
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