Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law • Hacker News Board

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#201

Post by ghostwriter » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

viewbase wrote: post #171

ghostwriter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam... * https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-kil...

The articles do not offer much in the way of evidences. This is understandable since the authoritarian nature of China makes it hard to gather any evidence in the first place. I remain skeptical over the fact that Uighurs (Caucasians) and ethnic Chinese (East Asians) are genetically different and the recipient's body is very likely to reject the organ.

organs may not necessarily be taken for transplantation only, tissues from various parts of human body are valuable for lab research of various kinds.

Also, what kind of evidence would be sufficient for you? A video footage of harvesting from one of the camps?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#202

Post by odessacubbage » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #112

irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

> My kid can run/play freely and I only worry about her running into traffic. To be fair, that is possible in a lot of countries, I would have doubts to do that in America though. And not only because of crime. > I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. There are several democratic countries that beat Singapore in regards to safety. So I believe this to be flawed reasoning. It is a safe co…

you could let your kid run free & unsupervised with little worry on probably near 90+ percent of the north american landmass. i spent the vast majority of my childhood with little to no supervision and crime rates have only fallen since then.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#203

Post by qeng-ho » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

mclightning wrote: post #121

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

>> Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety. That's a pretty reductivist way to define civilisation... From this definition; It sounds to me like there is a certain character/type of people who are redeemed as Civilized based on Govt definition. Thus justifies heavy control over society. "As a liberal", wouldn't it be more favourable to design the system around liberty…

It is deliberately reductive because I was hoping not to get into a debate about personal freedoms.

If you disagree, try telling the police that they have no right to infringe on your personal freedom when they stop you for drink-driving. Or theft. Or even jay-walking. To be in a society, any kind of society, involves giving up personal freedoms in exchange for something, usually safety or stability. We just have a different idea of what's an acceptable loss of personal freedom.

I agree that it'd be favourable to design the system about personal freedom, but that system comes with its own inefficiencies and disadvantages that by large my country deem unacceptable. Unfortunately, Singapore is still largely a pragmatic and conservative society that min-maxes for economic stability, and it'd be long before this changes.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#204

Post by squiggleblaz » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

mendelmaleh wrote: post #110

Barrin92 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually perfectly reasonable to subject American companies to the laws of nations they operate in unless you're suggesting they ought to act in imperial fashion and ignore the law of sovereign nations. It goes without saying that the same is, of course, true for foreign companies in the US.

How do you define 'operating in' for a web service? I would suggest they are operating on the internet, out of the US, therefore bound only to US law. Having the service accessible worldwide shouldn't make you subject to everyone's laws.

I guess it depends on whether they have ads paid for by Singaporean based companies targetting Singaporean based audiences. If Coca-Cola sells their wares in Singapore entirely by remote operations based in the United States, we'd still expect them to abide by Singaporean regulations pertaining to the sale of beverages in Singapore, taxes etc.

The alternative would seem to be separate national internets. Data might be imported and exported, but it wouldn't be seamless like today.

You can say you're not subject to a foreign law, but if you want that market, you aren't really immune.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#205

Post by qeng-ho » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

Genuinely asking. Do most of the population believe Singapore’s authoritarian government would stay benevolent??

I cannot answer for most of the population, but I can hazard a guess — they do not care to think that far. We have our bread and ciruses, and that makes us complacent that our government will at least maintain benevolence.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#206

Post by qeng-ho » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #139

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

>> I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN....Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety ...We're just debating the word "varying" and might not agree with your conclusion.

To quote what I replied to another user:

If you disagree, try telling the police that they have no right to infringe on your personal freedom when they stop you for drink-driving. Or theft. Or even jay-walking. To be in a society, any kind of society, involves giving up personal freedoms in exchange for something, usually safety or stability. We just have a different idea of what's an acceptable loss of personal freedom.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#207

Post by qeng-ho » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #90

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

I’ve lived in Singapore and agree with your post but I also have an uneasy feeling that it won’t last much longer. This government have and continue to make some big (IMO) mistakes especially in the areas of planning and mobility. Hopefully this is managed better by the next government.

I agree, especially with the uneasy feeling that it wouldn't last much longer; the challenge of the first 50 years of Singapore was economical, and the heavy-handedness of the government was a result of that. The challenge of the next 50, in contrast, is cultural and about her people, and I don't think the government as it is, is capable of shifting gears.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#208

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

squiggleblaz wrote: post #198

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Chinese Muslims are not Uyghur. The Chinese government doesn't care about its citizens being Muslim per se. The issues are actually quite different - separatism and a string terrorist attacks that caused a government crackdown.

Separatism shouldn't be a crime, and the government crackdown is completely out of proportion with the terrorism that has occurred.

I agree on both counts, but the reality is that in China, politically agitating for separatism is going to get you in very serious trouble.

I find that in Western reporting, the actual issues involved in Xinjiang are not discussed at all. Instead, it's presented as if the Chinese government had a problem with Muslims. The entire issue of separatism is rarely mentioned, nor is the fact that the largest Muslim group in China is actually the Hui (rather than the Uyghurs). The media is not really trying to inform the public about the situation and underlying conflicts (e.g., the East Turkestan movement), and instead painting a vastly dumbed-down, cartoonish picture that serves other propaganda interests.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#209

Post by s3nnyy » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #156

irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

Have you ever been to Switzerland? What you describe sounds like Suisse, but without all those dark aspects you mention. Open and just society that does treat people fairly. Super low criminality (compared to most world). Kids playing outside etc. Maybe for US persons this seems like a paradise, but its not a unique place. I know where I want to raise my kids. It sure as hell ain't some artificial bubble like Singapo…

You can ping me if you want to find a coding job in Switzerland (iwan@coderfit.com). I am a coder turned recruiter living and working in Zurich. I am active on the local tech job market.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#210

Post by ValentineC » Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

satori99 wrote: post #30

Aperocky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a population vote the same party in every election cycle, does that mean the elections are pointless? Or are you suggesting the elections are marred by fraud? It has to be one of these two.

It is possible that SK PAP politicians are just damn good at their jobs -- The modern history of Singapore does seem to suggest this. But it's also possible that no viable oppositions are allowed to organize effectively enough to compete fairly. My personal yardstick for judging a healthy and mature democracy is counting how many times political power has changed hands without violence -- Singapore is yet to score af…

> But it's also possible that no viable oppositions are allowed to organize effectively enough to compete fairly.

The odds are stacked against the opposition — for some reason, elected Members of Parliament are required to manage their individual town councils as well. The opposition that won a group constituency recently got a lawsuit slapped against them for "mismanagement" [1].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/dgbe25/ahtc_case...